Re: [TruthTalk] Prayer Request

[Dave]

Charles Perry Locke wrote: Sorry to jump into your discussion, DaveH, DAVEH:  No problem, Perry.  I appreciate your viewpoint and comments. but I think something important needs to be pointed out with respect to the LDS view of Angels, Jesus, and humans. DAVEH wrote:  If Jesus could pre-exist, why not others?  Jer 1:4-5 seems evidential.  And, Job (38:4-7) speaks of the morning stars and sons of God pre-existing.....  I presume most Protestants believe angels pre-existed.  Of course, Paul (Eph 1:4-5) suggests our pre-mortal existence as well.  So Slade......Is there anything in the Bible the precludes man's pre-mortal existence in the form of spirits? Christians do not consider Angels, Jesus, or humans to be of the same nature, or "stuff". We do not consider Jesus to be our literal spirit brother in the pre-existence, or to be the brother of the fallen angel Lucifer, as the LDS do. DAVEH:  I understand that, and am not expecting you to believe as I do.  I'm trying to figure out why you believe as you do.  (I know.....you've heard that before, but please bear with me on this for a bit.) We consider Jesus to be one person of the Trinity, all of which are God. Angels are created beings distinct in nature from humans. They most likely pre-existed human creation, and humans are a unique creation apart from angels. Humans did not pre-exist their birth as spirits. DAVEH:  That is the part that I'm trying to find out about your (and Slade's) belief.  What is it that makes you think spirits could not have been created prior to mortality?  There must be some passages in the Bible that lead you to that conclusion?  Or.....is it merely traditional Protestant dogma that has instilled such a belief? In LDS lore there seems to be only one type of being, which during it's existence may progress through several stages...spirit, angel, man, and god (I believe you call this "eternal progression"). This is like insect progression...egg, larva, pupa, and adult. The LDS jesus is not distinct in the LDS model. He is just another insect making his eternal march toward LDS godhood. DAVEH:  You are mixing some truths as to what I believe with some inaccuracies.  Your assumption that Jesus is not distinct is incorrect.  Jesus was not progressing toward Godhood.....he was God prior to his mortal life.  However, he consisted of only spirit form prior to his birth.  After his resurrection, he then consisted of a spirit body clothed with an exalted physical body of flesh and bone.  >From what I've learned on TT, I assume that is not too much different than what you might believe?     BTW Perry......I have not forgotten our previous quick and dead discussion.  I've done a little studying of it, but need to do much more.  It really is a topic that interests me, and I do intend to get back to it as I have time.  I just don't feel knowledgeable at this point to discuss it much. Perry Sort of like insects...eggs, larvae, pupae, then adult insects. Perry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.