----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:38
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Divine Nature
[Formerly -- Prayer Request]
I hope you all don't mind, but I have renamed this thread
more appropriately
I think understand the following:
DAVEH's position: I believe
Jesus existed as a spirit being in the OT. His spirit body then became
clothed in a body of flesh and blood for a brief span some 2000 years
ago. At his death, the spirit and physical body departed, only to be
reunited a short time later in a resurrected form of flesh and bones.
I believe he continues to be a spirit being that is clothed with physical
body of flesh and bones to this day.
Charles Perry Locke's position:
The aspect of the Trinity referred to as "the Son" became a man, was
crucified, and was raised from the dead.
Slade, deconstructing what DAVEH has said, sees that there
seems to be some sort of "evolution" in Yeshua from the Tanakh period, to
the Gospel period, and finally to the post -Gospel period. Do you believe
that Yeshua is now GOD (or a GOD?")
since He was resurrected from the dead? It seems you do not believe He held
that "position" before that event. I agree with the pre-existence of Yeshua
before His physical birth, but I must qualify that Yeshua was GOD before His
physical birth (i.e., incarnation). This explains why Yeshua pre-existed...
because He is GOD. More on that later. (I am
intentionally restating facts in order to try to make this perfectly clear
because nomenclature problems have existed in the past between DAVEH and I
and I want that to stop.)
Deconstructing Perry's position, I see what appears to be a
standard "orthodox" Christian position passed down from the later Church
fathers (i.e., Aquinas and Austustine). I also know from other positional
references Perry has made, he does not believe in three gods (a common
perverse argument used against the Trinitarian position). While I do not
quite understand the Trinity I don't think anyone else does. The more one
attempts to answer and codify the position, the higher the risk for heresy
and wrong-positioning.
Slade's position: Throwing myself
out on a limb for you all to effectively hew so I can fall, I see the
manifold aspects of YHVH through the grammar of the Hebrew language when the
Deity is described or mentioned. I see plural words used for a single Entity
(I am sorry for such a bland term) used with singular verbs -- a highly
interesting aspect of Hebrew grammar used exclusively with YHVH. I also see
singular nouns/pronouns used for YHVH with plural verbs -- again, highly
intriguing. We also know that there is but one GOD and besides Him there is
not one god. Yeshua, throughout the texts, is given Divine status in
multiple ways (outright references, strings of pearls, innuendos, etc.)
Yeshua, being GOD is accredited with being the same yesterday, today, and
tomorrow (I believe that "yesterday" in this reference is an idiom for
"forever in the past"). Therefore, there cannot be an "evolution" of Yeshua
from man to God. Also, since YHVH knows of no other god, there cannot be
some "evolution to godhood" for anyone else either. I do not hold to the
standard Trinitarian position because I see YHVH as far, FAR bigger than a
Trinity. There are other "Characters" within the Tanakh who claim the status
of YHVH that we cannot ignore simply because it doesn't fit the Trinitarian
mode. HOWEVER... I do find it interesting that there are three "persons" in
writing... First Person, Second Person, and Third person. Is that
coincidence?
Alright, DAVEH... there ya go! You wanted to know my
position, and you have it in a very small nutshell. Anything more will take
a lot more typing.
(please be kind....)
-- slade
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Charles Perry
Locke
Sent: Thursday, 01 July, 2004
10:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Prayer
Request
