From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DAVEH: I understand that is common Christian belief.. But, I would think there is a reason the common beliefs evolved that way. I thought there might be a passage in the Bible that would persuade Christian thought to develop along that line of reasoning.
DAVEH: Do you think the foreknowledge of God figures into the passage Slade originally quoted.......
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. His students asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Yeshua answered, "Neither did this man sin, nor his parents; but, that the works of God might be revealed in him. (John 9:1-3)
......? To me, this seems like indirect evidence there was some cognition of a pre-mortal existence.
I see absolutely no suggestion of pre-mortal existence in the above verse. I have read it many times, and have never in any way connected it with pre-mortal existence. Perhaps you admitted LDS bias is causing you to see evidence that does not exist in this verse. Did you interpret this verse this way yourself, or is it related to your LDS training?
DAVEH: I assume you believe your Protestant God was once a man too, do you not?
No, He was not. The aspect of the Trinity referred to as "the Son" became a man, was crucified, and was raised from the dead, but then I am talking about the real God, not the ficitious LDS god or LDS jesus.
DAVEH: I'm not trying to quote LDS Scripture here to support my beliefs.....as you know, that is not my purpose. I just wonder why you don't understand the pre-mortal spirit implication Jn 9:1-3 as I do.
And, likewise, I wonder why you do. I see it as another verse you are using as a prooftext to attempt to support an LDS false belief, like the baptism of the dead verse, or the verse about "ye are gods", and myriad other contortions of scruipture taken out of context and bent to support JS's false prophecies and babbling.
DAVEH: I don't understand why you think discussing your understanding of the nature of God is a waste of time, even if it does parallel my (LDS biased) belief.
Please don't give this more than is due...the parallel is sketchy at best, bound only in the words used, not in their meaning, and not in any similarity of characters.
If a Protestant wanted to discuss the nature of God, I would think you would not find that a waste of time. Is it just because I'm a Mormon that you don't want to condescend to my level to discuss God?
I do not find discussing the nature of God a waste of time at all. I find comparing God or Jesus to a fictitious god and a fictitious jesus a waste of time.
Let me lay out what I was trying to explain. I believe Jesus existed as a spirit being in the OT. His spirit body then became clothed in a body of flesh and blood for a brief span some 2000 years ago. At his death, the spirit and physical body departed, only to be reunited a short time later in a resurrected form of flesh and bones. I believe he continues to be a spirit being that is clothed with physical body of flesh and bones to this day. Now Perry, that is pretty much doctrinal LDS theology, to which I subscribe. From my discussions with other TTers in the past, I thought this is pretty much doctrinal thinking that is shared by many Protestants, and even independent thinkers such as yourself.
Above you have described some of the characteristics of the real Jesus, but have assigned them to the LDS false jesus. Hijacking some of the real Jesus' characteristics does not make the LDS jesus any more real.
DAVEH: I realize there are many things I believe with which you disagree. I'm not trying to tell you that I am right, and you are wrong. I'm just trying to figure out why you disagree.
For some reason or other, Dave, no matter how much I try to describe it to you, you just don't get it. I believe this is because of your twisted use of scripture, and your belief in a different jesus, different god, and a different gospel than that taught in the BIble. Hey, if one starts out with the wrong premises, one always ends up with the wrong conclusions.
Some things (such as my belief that Jesus' Heavenly Father has a physical body of flesh and bone) is very easy for me to understand why you don't accept it. So, there is really not a reason to discuss it, even if you were to bring it up in an effort to denigrate my beliefs. But, there are many things that seem pretty obvious to me as I read the Bible that make me wonder why you see them exactly opposite. Jn 9:1-3 is one of those passages. Perhaps my above explanation of the nature of God also fits into that realm, but I'm not sure.....since you are reluctant to waste your time discussing it.
David, I continually see you (as well as other LDS folks) read JS's babblings, then try to find scripture to support them. This always results in finding a scripture that contains some of the words in the JS babble, then taking it out of context, redefining some of the words, then twisting it to support the false premise. I see this everywhere in the LDS "interpretation" of the Bible. Since LDS place the writings of JS above the Bible, that results in a mutilation of the Biblical text, leading to a complete misunderstanding of it. There is no hope for you guys to ever find the truth as long as you are too tied up in the LDS lie to open you eyes. The first and most obvious key to understanding this is that the LDS are falling for the same lie that was used to deceive Eve.
DAVEH: My beliefs are certainly biased by dogma. But.......you knew that, didn't you! The question to you is......are yours?!?!?!
Some are, but I find them to be backed by scripture for the most part. I occasionally read scripture and gain an understanding that differs from the dogma I have been taught, but rather than twisting the scripture to make it fit the dogma, as the LDS appear to do, I drop the dogma and gain a new understanding from scripture.
Perry
---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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