RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm

Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:53:32 -0700

Hi Michael,
 
Not that John needs me to defend him in any way but you are constructing your theology from one experience Jesus had with his disciples.  I would suggest you re-read the story and ask yourself if the story is really about Jesus dissolving storms or if perhaps the story is narrated to us for a different purpose.  To assert that John is a fatalist and actually question whether he is a believer (by the question marks you pose after his signature) is ridiculous.  I understand that you are passionate about the topic and desire to see people saved from these dreadful storms.  That is all something we on this forum can see and honor you for.  What becomes a problem is when you create a theology (read mythology) behind it.  When Jesus prays "thy kingdom come' you imply that He is referring to God stopping storms.  This is your definition of what the Kingdom would be like.  When God tells the Israelites that He 'will heal their land' you imply that this means God will stop storms from assaulting us.  This is your definition of a healed land.  To imagine that this is what the writers were actually referring to is almost laughable.  In a way you have us all by the neck.  You can ask if we believe God can do things.  All of us will answer yes of course He can.  Then you jump to, well than if we pray enough He will.  If we don't pray the way you do it is implied that we are guilty of not agreeing with God and scripture.  The argument you make is tough for people to get their heads around.  It sounds so simple and very matter of factly puts one group in the believers side and the other to the non-believers side.  Who wouldn't want to be on the believers side?  Terry and John are both believers that hold to the word of God.  They believe (as do I) that God created a contingent universe.
 
Jonathan Hughes
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of michael douglas
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 9/26/2004 3:20:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

What do you believe, John? Does God, or does He not, have that power (to dissolve storms)?



Yes



should Believers pray for God to do that?

No.  We already have a promise from God relating to our circumstances.      Rom 8:28. 

Michael D: You've got to be kidding!!! (to use an americanism). You've got to be!!! What kind of fatalist are you? What God are you serving? When Jesus' own disciples failed to exercise their faith in the face of adverse weather conditions, He did not say chill out fellas, we will ride this storm out. He rebuked the storms and then rebuked them for their unbelief. Both things rebuked were adverse to their well-being, so He rebuked them both.

You really '...have not because you ask not...' This apathy also betrays a lack of appreciation for the way the god of this world prevails upon all that is natural in this realm if we allow him. Jesus said what you allow on earth, is allowed in heaven, and what you forbid on earth is forbidden in heaven. Earth is man's responsibility. If you chose to get God involved, He is eager to be. If you chose not to, but leave things to happenstance (which is really, enemy stance) then He will let you. Those who belong to Jesus are His Body. We are his hands and feet etc. If His body does not act, then His hands are tied. Can you  understand that??? That's His greatest problem... Listen to this...

IF MY people... (the operative here is IF and dependent on MY people.!!!) which are called by my name shall humble themselves and pray, and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sins and will heal their land. Seems like His people aren't quite getting the message, won't you say?

And yes Terry et al, God created storms, but God in flesh also rebuked them. That tells us that the things God created are manipulated by the enemy to try and destroy and hinder God's purpose, else Jesus wouldn't have rebuked "God's creation". Would He.

Does God do anything on

earth without prayer from Believers? Izzy



Almost everthing   --  if we are counting actual events. 

Yeah, and the reason for that is because He can't get His people to agree with Him through the media of repentance, and prayer, and faith in His Word.

Most people would readily agree that "the Lord's prayer" is inspired scripture. Would you, John? Do you notice, that inspite of God's promise in Romans 8:28 Jesus said that we must pray for His kingdom to come, and His will to be done??? And James said that we have not because we  ask not? Passivity is never GOd's approach. He said that the kingdom of heaven allows violence, and the violent take it by force. This sit back and let God work it out business is not from the God of the Bible. In the meantime people are losing a whole lot, while the firefighters sit in headquarters looking on. How sad... I am not condemning anyone, but recognising reality. I am incleded in this, myself...

John, a believer ?????

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