Evening Judy,
I won't push you on the first paragraph as it matters
little to me that you missed my point.
The second paragraph contains perhaps one sentence
that sums up your theology. It is to that sentence that I will address
this email. The sentence is "Jesus was the Lord and he came for one purpose and one
purpose only which was to die." If your theology
begins with the Fall where man appears to become separated from God you are
left with a Jesus who must die to restore that separation. I would
implore you to start where God starts: before the foundation of the world the
Godhead made a decision. They would include humanity in their plans and
within their relationship. Adoption was the plan from the
beginning. Jesus did not come to die. Jesus came to clothe Himself
with our humanity, to cleanse it from all impurity and to present it to His
Father as a Holy sacrifice. Jesus came that we might
live.
judyt: Then why the Levitical system and why the
slaughter of so many lambs, bulls, and goats. You completely misunderstand the
significance of the fall and the meaning of sin and separation Jonathan. Just
because you have found yourself a truncated gospel does not mean that God will
accept same. He is the one who defines holiness and sin, and he is the
one who decided who does and who does not get into His
presence.
Long ago, even before he made the world, God loved us
and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
His unchanging plan
has always been to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself
through Jesus Christ. And this gave him great pleasure.
(Ephesians 1:4-5) No wonder Paul breaks out into praise in verse
6!
judyt: Do I hear presumption Jonathan? God
loved and chose "a people in Christ" to be holy and blameless before Him.
Whether you and I are part of this group depends on how seriously we receive
His Word and whether or not we become doers of same or hearers only -
deceiving ourselves.
Regarding the magic that you call scriptural in your
reading of Deut 28 and 29. You are confusing
convenants.
judyt: His laws and statutes apply to all
covenants and every generation. His standards do not change any
more than He changes.
Walking in the Spirit (the new covenant) does lead to
blessing; it may also lead to a tonne of strife. Read Paul�s life in
Acts. He walked according to the Spirit and for some reason his herds
did not increase.
judyt: He didn't have any herds that I know of, Paul
was a tentmaker. Was he ever hungry or out on the street begging? In his
case Jesus said he would show him what he must suffer for His names'
sake. Could be he was reaping some of what he sowed when he persecuted the
Church and killed God's people.
But he counted it all gain to suffer for Christ.
Read Jesus� life who walked in the Spirit each and every moment of His
life.
judyt: Jesus came to defeat the powers of darkness,
they hated him but could do nothing to stop him. His enemies were
not flesh and blood and neither are ours.
The blessing that Paul refers to is not the blessing
you refer to in Deuteronomy which was a blessing offered (and scorned) to
Israel for obedience. Reading the list of blessings in Deuteronomy one
must ask who wouldn�t want them!
judyt: Deuteronomy as I've said already is God's Word
to His people in every generation and obedience is the requirement for
blessing in every generation. Israel did not scorn God or His Word
intentionally, they were deceived in losing sight of what was
important.
Unfortunately they lack relationship. It is this
walking in the Spirit, this continual relationship with the Son of God that
brings about blessing, not accordance to levitical law.
judyt: I understand that Jesus is the fulfillment of
the Levitical Law Jonathan but the blessings and curses are aside from that.
Jesus says "If you love me you will do what I say" which to me is the same
kind of obedience.
Note that the blessing this brings about is far
different than the �increase the size of my herds, keep storms away from my
loft� type. Don�t accept the foreshadowing of God�s blessing for the
real blessing He offers in His Son.
judyt: Being blessed going in and blessed going out,
being blessed in the city and blessed in the field is all encompassing.
I don't see any reason for the blessing to be limited to an
agragarian culture. As for the curse? No doubt about that because
we are wearing it.
judyt
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:19
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] Eye of the
Storm
Hi Judy,
Do you believe that God (Yahweh) was promising His
people that they
would live in an idyllic garden of Eden where no harm
would befall them
at all? That death would no longer be present in
any form? Do you
believe that all the wild animals around them would be
peaceful to the
Israelites? Why have laws against ox's goring
others if they were all
in a state of bliss? This is what I mean by
saying that verses such as
the one you mentioned need to be taken in a reality
context. Do you see how you are taking the verse out of context?
If not I can try to
explain more.
jt: No I don't believe all of the above neither do I
believe that these idyllic conditions must be present for people to be in
peace and free from fear. God knows how to preserve the righteous and
how to keep the wicked for the day of destruction. I wrote "when a man
pleases the Lord he makes even his enemies be at peace with
him."
Jonathan replies: Would you say that Jesus
feared the Lord? Were His
enemies at peace with Him? On the contrary they
killed Him. If
pleasing the Lord brought peace with all men we would
be one big happy
family on this forum.
jt: Jesus was the Lord and he came for one purpose and
one purpose only which was to die. I have also noted that when they tried to
kill him and throw him off a cliff he walked right through them and went on.
They were unable to do anything to him until the time ordained by the Father.
Same with Israel. When they walked where they should have been walking
their enemies were totally impotent and feared them. Need I
continue?
Note that I believe your 'blessing/cursing' theology
is occultic and not rooted in Biblical revelation. We walk in the
Spirit, not in blessing. Jesus became the curse and we submit to
Him.
jt: My blessing/cursing theology as you call it is
scriptural, it is straight out of Deuteronomy 28,29 and walking after the
Spirit IS walking in blessing; this is the ONLY way to be blessed. God does
not bless ignorance, nor does he bless our turning to our own way and doing
our own thing. Jesus became a curse - hanging on a tree for us which sacrifice
is to no avail for those who do not apprehend by overcoming
faith.
judyt
