Re: [TruthTalk] Read it and weep!

[Lance Muir]

Of course Judith, one can understand without knowledge of either Greek or Grammar. One can also MISunderstand without them. I know this to be the case from both experience and from observing others on TT. May I say that this is particularly true of you and Linda. Forget 'may I' I think I just said it. From: Judith H Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: October 04, 2004 08:09 Subject: [TruthTalk] Read it and weep!     [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi John: I don't think either Izzy or I am saying what you appear to be responding to. I have no idea what your "unbiblical doctrine of holiness and perfectionism" is, probably a CofC thing. The scriptures teach that "without holiness it is impossible to please God" and that "without holiness noone will see the Lord" So what do you have against it?   judyt What's wrong with accepting the fact that "righteousness" is a gift bestowed upon us, not something that is earned through obdience  (Romans 4)   Judyt: Righteousness is not just bestowed John, I know it is called that in one place but in 1 John we are told that it is the one who "does righteousness" who is righteous. JudyT: As for Greek tenses and verbs - the Holy Spirit can communicate with or without them - all Greeks are not saved are they? And John: Judy  -- what in the world are you doing?   Look -- I go into a bakery and order an English muffin.   The counter help says "We hate the English people and do not serve them."  What would be the very next thing a sane person would do  --  run like hell for the next story  AND AND AND hope the crazy counter help does not follow you.   You combine Greek grammar and unsaved Greek people to argue that rules of grammar make no difference in biblical study.  That makes sense to you  !!!     Judyt: This wasn't my point John.  What I am saying is that the Holy Spirit can communicate an understanding of scripture with or without Greek tenses, verbs, and Greek grammar because this is His ministry and this is what He has been sent for. Are you saying that God had nothing to do with any of the translations into English and other languages or and that the Holy Spirit can not use any language other than Greek to speak to a person's heart? John: You make fun of "bias."  Yet, clearly and obviously, in a painful sense, bias is all you have left in this disagreement.    Judyt: What do you believe is my bias?  Am I biased against Greek and Greeks?   John: There are boundaries   to our disageemnets.  One of them is "what the Bible says."   AND YOU CANNOT KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IF YOU REJECT THE GRAMMATICAL RULES THAT GOVERN THE LANGUAGE OF THE MESSAGE.  And that is what you are doing  --  just to keep from saying that you are wrong.     Judyt: No John, what I am doing is saying that the Holy Spirit is the one who perfectly understands and interprets the Word of God and He is competent in all languages. John: I am not going to argue this point.  If we do not the good sense to understand that grammar is not the work of the devil, then the discussion is too wierd for me.  Judyt: Who said anything about grammar being the work of the devil?  I didn't say it, neither did I imply it.  Grammar is fine only we are not limited by having to know Greek grammar in our study and desire to understand of the Word of God. A Strongs Concordance and an English translation along with the ministry of the Holy Spirit works just as well.  What's wrong with that?   Grace and Peace, Judyt