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jt: Who is it that
teaches that "the whole cosmos (which must include satan since he was there) was
included in the incarnation? As for John's heart; I am not his judge, I can only
go by what comes out of his mouth by way of his keyboard. How does
one "discern" love for Jesus? The Lord Himself says "If you love me you
will DO as I say"
I have no idea what
John does in his personal life and neither do you.
Jt:I DO NOT HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD SAVED INCLUDING
THE DEVIL! As to the matter of John's heart, you would appear
to be the only one who has difficulty discerning this man's love for
Jeshua.
This response exemplifies the
entire 'in the flat/in depth' hermeneutic. Judy knows who you are John,
in Christ, yet she chooses to argue over your choice of words describing a
reality you have in common with all believers. Anytime we encounter a believer
from any other Christian Tradition we ought to be listening 'through' their vocabulary to their heart.
That's where God is looking and, so should we. What a waste of time so many of
these 'quibbles' are! They are both silly and, foolish.
jt: Lance, when are you going to
come down from your lofty perch up there with Hermes and the rest of the Greek
gods and begin to deal with reality? I'm talking about the 'wisdom of God' and
you are way out there with some 'hermeneutic' or other. Fact is a
person's heart is exposed BY rather than IN SPITE OF the words that they speak
... So is it any wonder you have the whole world saved including the
devil.
In a message dated 12/17/2004 9:16:52 PM
Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Everyone lives what they really believe. Izzy
John responds: A really
ridiculous statement. "Lord,I believe, help me in my
unbelief." J
jt: How is this
'ridiculous?' God's wisdom tells us that we not only live them we speak them
also for
"Out of the
abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks" so it is no use
proclaiming one thing publicly
and speaking
something else in private.
So you donât live your
beliefs? Izzy
John: Not always and neither do you.
Neither does the addicted, lost in his habit and helpless to be what he
really wants to be; neither the confused and beleaguered wife who
compromises to save the marriage; or the young black boy with
absolutely no guidance, lost in a sea of racial regrets who cries in private
at what he sees as his only choices; or the gay and homely blade who is so
taken by the disappointment of his parents (in all facets of his life) that,
in spite of what he believes, his need for acceptance
prevails. None of this rises to the level of reasoned excuse for
failure. But the addicted "really wants" and thus, believes in
what is noble and right; the beleaguered wife "compromises" and thus
acknowledges what she believes to be right; the black boy who secretly
weeps lives a life that trumps what he knows is right (thus the
tears); and the gay and lonely son who is driven by guilt because, and
only because, he "knows" what he believes but is lost without a teacher
(lost does not mean lost, in this case). Tears, guilt, compromise, restless addictions are all
testaments to the possession of truth. It is when
we have so surrendered to the flesh that we feel no guilt, shed no tears,
are aware of no compromise, and rejoice in our addictions that we are truly
lost -- given over to the flesh.
jt: Maybe we should
have first defined what it means to "believe" Faith and belief in
His Word are synonamous in God's economy - but this has nothing to do with
wants and or needs. What you describe above
is belief/faith in the devil's lies John.
So people often do
not live as they believe, Linda.
jt: Oh but they do - God's Word says
"according to your faith so be it unto you" If the people above first
believed and then took hold of the power that proceeds from the cross, they
could be free of confusion, addiction, and perversion because the truth
acted upon makes us free.
And there are times when we meet these
people, speak what God would have us to say and it strikes at the
heart of who they really are and what they really believe and they are
"saved." That is what I am saying.
John
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