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----- Forwarded Message -----
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes: Jt:What is there concerning I DO
NOT.......that you fail to apprehend? I've never met John. I do have some idea
what John does in his personal life. As to my UNANSWERED QUESTION TO YOU
RECENTLY: Do you believe similarly concerning Izzy, Slade, Kay, Jeff, Jonathan,
Bill et al?
jt: Do I believe what concerning Izzy, Slade,
Kay, Jeff, Jonathan, Bill et al?
Lance responds:
That they all and also may be
as phoney as a $3 bill? given that you do not know, first hand, how they
live.
jt: Who other than you, has
called anyone "as phoney as a $3 bill Lance?" Certainly not me. I
may not see things the same way as others and we may both be sincere. It
is possible to be 'sincerely deceived' you know Lance but if we are
walking in love, we will speak the truth to others openly and up front - in love which pleases
the Lord and ultimately He will get us straight.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jt:I DO NOT HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD SAVED INCLUDING THE
DEVIL! As to the matter of John's heart, you would appear
to be the only one who has difficulty discerning this man's love for
Jeshua.
jt: Looks like my part of this
was lost in cyberspace - Lance aren't you the one who teaches that the
whole cosmos (which must include Satan since he was present at Calvary)
was included in the incarnation? As for John's heart and love for
Jesus. The Lord Himself defines what this consists of when He says
"If you love me you will DO what I say" I have no idea what John DOES in
his personal life and neither do you. All we can know is what he says by
way of his keyboard.
This response exemplifies the entire 'in the flat/in depth' hermeneutic.
Judy knows who you are John, in Christ, yet she chooses to argue over
your choice of words describing a reality you have in common with all
believers. Anytime we encounter a believer from any other Christian
Tradition we ought to be listening 'through' their
vocabulary to their heart. That's where God is looking and, so
should we. What a waste of time so many of these 'quibbles' are! They
are both silly and, foolish.
jt: Lance, when are you
going to come down from your lofty perch up there with Hermes and the
rest of the Greek gods and begin to deal with reality? I'm talking
about the 'wisdom of God' and you are way out there with some
'hermeneutic' or other. Fact is a person's heart is exposed BY
rather than IN SPITE OF the words that they speak ... So is it
any wonder you have the whole world saved including the
devil.
In a message dated 12/17/2004 9:16:52
PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Everyone lives what they really believe.
Izzy
John responds: A really ridiculous
statement. "Lord,I believe, help me in my
unbelief." J
jt: How
is this 'ridiculous?' God's wisdom tells us that we not only live
them we speak them also for
"Out of
the abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks" so it is no
use proclaiming one thing publicly
and
speaking something else in private.
So you donât live your
beliefs? Izzy
John: Not always and neither do
you. Neither does the addicted, lost in his habit
and helpless to be what he really wants to be; neither the
confused and beleaguered wife who compromises to save the
marriage; or the young black boy with absolutely no guidance,
lost in a sea of racial regrets who cries in private at what he sees
as his only choices; or the gay and homely blade who is so taken by
the disappointment of his parents (in all facets of his life) that,
in spite of what he believes, his need for acceptance
prevails. None of this rises to the level of reasoned
excuse for failure. But the addicted "really wants" and
thus, believes in what is noble and right; the beleaguered wife
"compromises" and thus acknowledges what she believes to be
right; the black boy who secretly weeps lives a life that
trumps what he knows is right (thus the tears); and the gay
and lonely son who is driven by guilt because, and only because, he
"knows" what he believes but is lost without a teacher (lost does
not mean lost, in this case). Tears,
guilt, compromise, restless addictions are all testaments to the
possession of truth. It is when we have so
surrendered to the flesh that we feel no guilt, shed no tears, are
aware of no compromise, and rejoice in our addictions that we are
truly lost -- given over to the flesh.
jt: Maybe
we should have first defined what it means
to "believe" Faith and belief in His Word are synonamous
in God's economy - but this has nothing to do with wants and or
needs. What you describe above is
belief/faith in the devil's lies John.
So people often
do not live as they believe, Linda.
jt: Oh but they do - God's Word says
"according to your faith so be it unto you" If the people
above first believed and then took hold of the power that proceeds
from the cross, they could be free of confusion, addiction, and
perversion because the truth acted upon makes us free.
And there are times when we meet these
people, speak what God would have us to say and it strikes at
the heart of who they really are and what they really believe and
they are "saved." That is what I am saying.
John
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