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I shall ponder this matter further. Thanks for the
'ponderfodder'
----- Original Message -----
Sent: December 18, 2004 13:19
Subject: [TruthTalk] The Right Way To Get
To The Truth
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes: Jt:What is there concerning I DO
NOT.......that you fail to apprehend? I've never met John. I do have some idea
what John does in his personal life. As to my UNANSWERED QUESTION TO YOU
RECENTLY: Do you believe similarly concerning Izzy, Slade, Kay, Jeff,
Jonathan, Bill et al?
jt: Do I believe what concerning Izzy, Slade,
Kay, Jeff, Jonathan, Bill et al?
Lance responds:
That they all and also may
be as phoney as a $3 bill? given that you do not know, first hand, how
they live.
jt: Who other than you, has
called anyone "as phoney as a $3 bill Lance?" Certainly not me. I
may not see things the same way as others and we may both be sincere. It
is possible to be 'sincerely deceived' you know Lance but if we are
walking in love, we will speak the truth to others openly and up front - in love which
pleases the Lord and ultimately He will get us
straight.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jt:I DO NOT HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD SAVED INCLUDING
THE DEVIL! As to the matter of John's heart, you would
appear to be the only one who has difficulty discerning this man's love
for Jeshua.
jt: Looks like my part of
this was lost in cyberspace - Lance aren't you the one who teaches that
the whole cosmos (which must include Satan since he was present at
Calvary) was included in the incarnation? As for John's heart and
love for Jesus. The Lord Himself defines what this consists of
when He says "If you love me you will DO what I say" I have no idea what
John DOES in his personal life and neither do you. All we can know is
what he says by way of his keyboard.
This response exemplifies the entire 'in the flat/in depth' hermeneutic.
Judy knows who you are John, in Christ, yet she chooses to argue
over your choice of words describing a reality you have in common
with all believers. Anytime we encounter a believer from any other
Christian Tradition we ought to be listening
'through' their vocabulary to their heart. That's where God
is looking and, so should we. What a waste of time so many of these
'quibbles' are! They are both silly and, foolish.
jt: Lance, when are you
going to come down from your lofty perch up there with Hermes and
the rest of the Greek gods and begin to deal with reality? I'm
talking about the 'wisdom of God' and you are way out there
with some 'hermeneutic' or other. Fact is a person's heart is
exposed BY rather than IN SPITE OF the words that they speak ... So
is it any wonder you have the whole world saved including the
devil.
In a message dated 12/17/2004
9:16:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Everyone lives what they really
believe. Izzy
John responds: A really
ridiculous statement. "Lord,I believe, help me in my
unbelief." J
jt: How
is this 'ridiculous?' God's wisdom tells us that we not only live
them we speak them also for
"Out of
the abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks" so it is no
use proclaiming one thing publicly
and
speaking something else in private.
So you donât live
your beliefs? Izzy
John: Not
always and neither do you. Neither does the
addicted, lost in his habit and helpless to be what he really
wants to be; neither the confused and beleaguered wife who
compromises to save the marriage; or the young black
boy with absolutely no guidance, lost in a sea of racial regrets
who cries in private at what he sees as his only choices; or the
gay and homely blade who is so taken by the disappointment of his
parents (in all facets of his life) that, in spite of what he
believes, his need for acceptance
prevails. None of this rises to the level of reasoned
excuse for failure. But the addicted "really wants"
and thus, believes in what is noble and right; the beleaguered
wife "compromises" and thus acknowledges what she believes to be
right; the black boy who secretly weeps lives a life that
trumps what he knows is right (thus the tears); and the gay
and lonely son who is driven by guilt because, and only because,
he "knows" what he believes but is lost without a teacher (lost
does not mean lost, in this case). Tears, guilt, compromise, restless addictions are
all testaments to the possession of
truth. It is when we have so surrendered
to the flesh that we feel no guilt, shed no tears, are aware of no
compromise, and rejoice in our addictions that we are truly lost
-- given over to the flesh.
jt: Maybe we should have first defined
what it means to "believe" Faith and belief in His Word
are synonamous in God's economy - but this has nothing to do with
wants and or needs. What you
describe above is belief/faith in the devil's lies
John.
So people often do not live as they believe,
Linda.
jt: Oh but they do - God's Word
says "according to your faith so be it unto you" If the
people above first believed and then took hold of the power that
proceeds from the cross, they could be free of confusion,
addiction, and perversion because the truth acted upon makes us
free.
And there are times when we meet
these people, speak what God would have us to say and it
strikes at the heart of who they really are and what they really
believe and they are "saved." That is what I am
saying.
John
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