DaveH:In the interest of full disclosure, it is I, Lance the logical, who wrote David on this. Thanks for the 'connections'. May you, Dave Hansen, be as much a part of this dialogue as David Miller. Unless I've misread him, I believe he sees himself, credally, on an equal footing with yourself. (David, please correct me if this is not the case.)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: December 30, 2004 22:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth > > > David Miller wrote: > > >Somebody wrote me privately, expressing being mystified from my not finding > >the creeds of Christendom, such as the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed, > >to be too important. I guess my willingness to deviate from these creeds > >might be somewhat surprising to some. I am choosing to address this subject > >in this forum because it relates to truth and our communication to one > >another regarding truth and the standards of authority we use for > >determining what is true and what is not. > > > >I consider creeds of any kind to be immature stepping stones on the path to > >truth. > > > DAVEH: If a creed compromises perceptions of truth, then couldn't it be > a stepping stone on the path to doctrinal error? > > > They most likely will fail at some point when knowledge is increased > >and greater understanding exists. Therefore, I do not hold creeds such as > >the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed to be authoritative. Rather, they > >are an effort to establish a truth that is really not yet apprehended by > >all. The truth being established might be known to some but hidden from > >others. Nevertheless, creeds often represent a compromise between conflict; > > > > > >therefore, they ought not be trusted as standards of truth. > > > DAVEH: Can it be assumed that a creed is therefore not from God? > > > They are, at > >best, a picture into the consensus of a group of people at one particular > >moment in time. For the most part, I consider a creed the same way I do a > >working hypothesis or theory in the realm of science. It is a tentative > >conclusion that is subject to change. > > > > > DAVEH: I guess that answered my last question..... > > >We do not establish creeds for things that we know with certainty to be > >true. Who has ever heard of a creed that establishes that 2+2=4 or that a > >triangle has three sides, the hypotenuse of which equals the sum of the > >squares of the two remaining sides? We don't mindlessly quote creeds every > >week that says, what goes up must come down due to the force of gravity, or > >that the sky is blue, or that the earth rotates around the sun, etc. In > >other words, truth that is known to be true never has any need for a creed > >in order to establish them. From this observation, we must conclude that > >creeds are an immature way of forcing the realization of an idea upon > >others. > > > >Basically, I hold Scripture and reasoning to be something that trumps > >creeds. If Scripture and reasoning goes against a creed, I will consider > >that to be a higher authority than the creed. The creed only holds > >historical value of what people believed at the time, or of what people who > >continue to embrace the creed believe. But the creed really has no > >authority for me in regards to what is true. This does not mean that it > >carries no weight at all. The weight it carries, however, is primarily that > >it is the witness of truth given by a large group of people. That large > >group of people, however, might be wrong. It is very possible that their > >lack of knowledge and understanding is what caused them to embrace the creed > >in the first place. One thing I am certain of, and that is that when > >someone truly apprehends and knows a particular truth, he has no need for > >any creed to declare it. At best, creeds give security to the insecure, and > >that insecurity is the result of lack of knowledge and understanding. > >Therefore, creeds are immature philosophical steps on the path to truth. > >They do not represent the actual apprehension of truth, but only the hopeful > >expectation of what might be found once that truth is fully apprehended. We > >should not fear deviating from creeds. > > > > > DAVEH: Isn't the Nicene Creed the glue that holds Protestantism > together? Once one departs that path, do they not achieve cult status? > > >Peace be with you. > >David Miller. > > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dave Hansen > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.langlitz.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > If you wish to receive > things I find interesting, > I maintain Five email lists... > JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, > STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
