----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:54
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eternal
Judgment
Bill Taylor wrote:
Terry writes > I do not understand you very
well, so I have no idea as to whether this will sink in, ...
Hi Terry. I'm sorry you have such
difficulty understanding me. I try to be a good communicator, but obviously
fall short of that task. My question was this: Why do you see reconciliation
and forgiveness as something which is "offered" to humanity, but is not a
reality until individual humans do something (repentance, evidently) to
activate it?
Col 1.19-20 -- For it pleased the
Father that in [his Son, Jesus Christ,] all the fullness should
dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether
things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of
His cross.
Col 2.13-14 -- And you, being
dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made
alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having
wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was
contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the
cross.
As I understand it, both
reconciliation and the forgiveness of sins were made a reality for all
humanity by Christ Jesus at the cross. They are already fully
accomplished, made actual and true in him. It is therefore not our
repentance that makes these things real. What repentance does is align
our thinking and actions with that which is already real and true in Christ.
Repentance is thus first of all a change of mind, as we let go of false
beliefs and begin to believe the word of truth, the good news of our
salvation; it is secondly a change of behavior, as our newly established
belief in Christ Jesus, who is now Christ in us through the Holy
Spirit, begins to produce fruit in our lives.
Anyway, thanks for your response. I
will try to do a better job of communication in the future.
Bill
=====================================================
John, the
Baptist said repent. Jesus said repent. Peter said repent.
It seems like a whole bunch of people then and now, say repent. If there
is nothing you need to do, if Christ has done it all, if you have no say as to
whether you are saved or lost then everyone is saved. Otherwise, Christ
is to blame for those who go to Hell. We both know better than that, so your
logic escapes me.
Terry
_____________________________________________________________________
Perhaps someday, through the renewal of your mind
in Christ, it will begin to make sense :>) Until then, my friend, you
will still be my brother.
The problem I have with your theology and the
thing which drove me to search the Scriptures for greater answers, can be
demonstrated in the egocentrism of your following statements: "He died to make [my
salvation] possible and I took advantage of that possibility. I turned
from my sin, to Christ." I say this not to offend you but to point out that
humanity has but one Savior, Christ Jesus our Lord. Your theology espouses a
subtle but nonetheless fallacious form of co-redemption; by that I mean
your gospel has at its center two Saviors: Jesus and yourself; for
had you not taken advantage of the possibility of salvation
offered you, and had you not turned from your sin,
you would not have been saved. Am I correct? My friend, that
makes you your own savior, along with him who died to make your
salvation a contingent possibility. Do you not know in your heart
that this is wrong?
It seems to me if the chain which binds you to the Father in
Jesus Christ has as even one of it links your feeble act of "repentance"
or whatever else it may be, then the entire chain -- your whole salvation
-- is no stronger than you, its weakest link. What weight must
pull across your shoulders! When I believed as you do, that weight tore me in
two; it took me straight to despair. There were, however, many
Christians, whom I knew, who thought they were strong enough to tow the
load. I could tell, though, that they were actually rather stuffy. And to
be honest, most of them are still patting themselves on the back for their
autonomous acts of personal repentance and decision. They still
think they are plenty strong. The truth
is, Terry, I believe they are saved; I also believe you are saved -- all
this I believe by the same grace that saved me. Anyway, I do not expect to change your mind and I am sure
you are tired of my nagging questions, so I will let it go at
that.
Peace to you, my brother,
Bill
