Bill Taylor wrote:
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:54 PM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Eternal Judgment
Bill Taylor wrote:
Terry writes > I do not understand you very
well, so I have no idea as to whether this will sink in, ...
Hi Terry. I'm sorry
you have such difficulty understanding me. I try to be a good
communicator, but obviously fall short of that task. My question was
this: Why do you see reconciliation and forgiveness as something which
is "offered" to humanity, but is not a reality until individual
humans do something (repentance, evidently) to activate it?
Col 1.19-20 -- For it
pleased the Father that in [his Son, Jesus Christ,] all the fullness
should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him,
whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through
the blood of His cross.
Col 2.13-14 -- And
you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your
flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all
trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was
against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the
way, having nailed it to the cross.
As I understand it,
both reconciliation and the forgiveness of sins were made a reality for
all humanity by Christ Jesus at the cross. They are already fully
accomplished, made actual and true in him. It is therefore not our
repentance that makes these things real. What repentance does is align
our thinking and actions with that which is already real and true in
Christ. Repentance is thus first of all a change of mind, as we let go
of false beliefs and begin to believe the word of truth, the good news
of our salvation; it is secondly a change of behavior, as our newly
established belief in Christ Jesus, who is now Christ in us through the
Holy Spirit, begins to produce fruit in our lives.
Anyway, thanks for
your response. I will try to do a better job of communication in the
future.
Bill
=====================================================
John, the Baptist said repent. Jesus said repent. Peter said repent.
It seems like a whole bunch of people then and now, say repent. If
there is nothing you need to do, if Christ has done it all, if you have
no say as to whether you are saved or lost then everyone is saved.
Otherwise, Christ is to blame for those who go to Hell. We both know
better than that, so your logic escapes me.
Terry
_____________________________________________________________________
Perhaps someday, through the
renewal of your mind in Christ, it will begin to make sense :>)
Until then, my friend, you will still be my brother.
The problem I have with your
theology and the thing which drove me to search the Scriptures for
greater answers, can be demonstrated in the egocentrism of your
following statements: "He died to make [my salvation] possible and I took
advantage of that possibility. I turned from my sin, to Christ." I say
this not to offend you but to point out that humanity has but one
Savior, Christ Jesus our Lord. Your theology espouses a subtle but
nonetheless fallacious form of co-redemption; by that I mean your
gospel has at its center two Saviors: Jesus and yourself; for had you
not taken advantage of the possibility of salvation offered you,
and had you not turned from your sin, you
would not have been saved. Am I correct? My friend, that makes you your
own savior, along with him who died to make your salvation a contingent
possibility. Do you not know in your heart that this is wrong?
It seems to me if the chain which
binds you to the Father in Jesus Christ has as even one of it links
your feeble act of "repentance" or whatever else it may be, then the
entire chain -- your whole salvation -- is no stronger than you, its
weakest link. What weight must pull across your shoulders! When I
believed as you do, that weight tore me in two; it took me straight to
despair. There were, however, many Christians, whom I knew, who thought
they were strong enough to tow the load. I could tell, though, that
they were actually rather stuffy. And to be honest, most of them are
still patting themselves on the back for their autonomous acts of
personal repentance and decision. They still think they are plenty
strong. The truth
is, Terry, I believe they are saved; I also believe you are saved --
all this I believe by the same grace that saved me. Anyway, I do not expect to change your mind and
I am sure you are tired of my nagging questions, so I will let it go at
that.
Peace to you, my brother,
Bill
========================================================
Mam oh man, how I wish you could see it. This is not two saviors. This
is God making a covenant with man. If you will do this, I will do
that. The stronger party always sets the terms of the covenant. He
set the terms. I simply agreed to them. I have no reason to pat
myself on the back. He died for me. I did nothing for Him. I simply
accepted salvation on His terms. "Repent and die to self. Follow
me". I have died to self. My mind has been renewed. I know the
truth, because He told me the truth.
I wish there was some way that I could get the whole world to see that.
Your brother,
Terry
|
