Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 2:39
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13 fg. -
Perhaps it's focus is WHO not so much WHAT
Could it be that Terry and Caroline are talking
about different things, both of which are true?
Caroline, I think I understand what you mean,
that if we are continually forcing ourselves on an issue and it feels like a
burden and there is no joy in doing it, or if we just can't come to the point
of "obedience", there is probably something underlying that needs to be
resolved. Or else we are placing undue demands on ourselves that are really
not from God and have nothing to do with obedience (maybe they're from
legalistic friends! :-) ). Or we are not respecting the reality of the
journey and are trying to shortcut by leaping ahead to stuff we are not yet
mature enough for. Or we're living out of our own strength. Just gritting our
teeth and putting our nose to the grindstone won't help. Am I
understanding that right? If so, I agree.
But I wonder if Terry may be talking about
something different and more healthy. I think it's normal for there to be
some struggle to obey a lot of the time, a kind of struggle that
is completely transparent, has nothing to do with demons or
confusion and just comes from the Old Man stirring again (as
referenced in a recent thread involving JD and David, in which they
agreed). We may be fully correct about the rut we have been
given our way out of, but that don't make it easy to get
out. Some of the best joy we experience comes from
having gone through that struggle successfully. In finally
submitting to the Spirit we are enabled to recognize the
grace and strength of Christ in us to carry out what all our own striving
cannot accomplish. I am willing to consider "just do it" as
shorthand for that.
We have to remember that we are part of the
creation; we aren't resurrected yet, and there isn't a part of us that is
extricable from our body. He remembers we are dust, and so should
we. Some groaning and longing mixed with the joy and peace is
unavoidable. But you have often reminded us, Caroline, that if
we muck it up again (and again), this doesn't affect the relation in
which we stand to God and we don't have to wonder if we have slipped a
notch with him or been taken off the honour roll. That's the beauty.
(With people, it's another thing!)
Debbie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:17
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13 fg.
- Perhaps it's focus is WHO not so much WHAT
Terry:
Jesus asked, "Why do you call me Lord, and do not do as I tell
you?"
We obey because He is Lord and we are not. Simple as
that. Though love is the ideal motive, it does not matter
whether you feel like doing it out of love, or fear, or do not feel like
doing it at all. He is not wringing His hands hoping we will someday
obey. He demands obedience, because He deserves obedience. HE IS
LORD!
Caroline:
Nothing is simple when it comes to humans and saying it is sweeps a lot
of things under the carpet. If someone loves Jesus and wants to do
His will but can't it could be
a) unresolved sin issues that needs to be confessed. This may even be
generational or spousal sins
b) spiritual warfare that needs to be confronted.
c) misunderstanding of what Jesus really wants and the Spirit is saying
stop!
d) something else needs to be done first
e) woundedness that needs to be healed first. What if someone cheated
us financially and we haven't forgiven them? Or what if we grew up poorer
than our neighbours? In some people, an inability to tithe may have its
roots in that unforgiveness or inability to trust God's care.
I'm sure others can think of blocks to obedience. "Just do it" is an
awful yoke to place on people's neck. Jesus said his yoke is easy and his
burden light and that we're to learn from him and he will give us rest. If
the yoke is hard and the burden is heavy, we're under the wrong master or we
haven't heard his voice instructing us on how to obey. It would also mean
giving up on a lot of joy and peace.
