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If everybody got three of these, sorry. I don't
know what happened.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:12
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
Assuming we have a correct
understanding of Jesus and the Mormons don't, then if on that basis alone we
are saved and they aren't, it is our understanding which has saved us. Like
Bill (in a recent post), I can't hold with that.
But the question
was different, it was whether the actual object of my faith/belief
(putting myself in the place of a Mormon) can still be the real Jesus even if
I have so much wrong information about him. It doesn't seem impossible, given
analogies one could invent: if I am blind and think the surgeon is a
Sasquatch, but I still lie down on the operating table with full confidence,
am I trusting the surgeon? The quesiont cannot be just about what's in our
heads and what's out there. With Jesus it is a matter of taking active steps,
and him doing stuff to us. But is it best characterized as a one-shot
deal, or a relationship that develops? And if the latter, then maybe the
proper question is, Can this relationship, this interaction be going on
and I the Mormon continue to have such wrong ideas about him? I
find that harder to say Yes to, but I do not know. If what we others believe
about Jesus is true, it seems to me that a genuine relationship with the real
Person could not evoke less than worship. That is the stumbling block for
me with Mormonism: worship. Can you worship without knowing it? (It
was only an analogy, but maybe the Christian life is after all
a single loooong surgery, at the end of which I can see, and realize the
surgeon is not a Sasquatch. In due course, everyone will
worship...)
Lance, it may ultimately be the same question as
Why aren't believers' lives changed more, if they have the Holy Spirit within
them? Why don't we all agree about Scripture if we have the Holy Spirit within
us? (I can predict some people's answer to
this.)
Debbie
----- Original Message -----
From:
"Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Belief
> Lance,
>
> I agree that "Every
christian believer believes 'through' an errant
> framework". But how
errant is too errant? Is there a line that can be
> drawn? In the end
either we are saved or we are not. Was our framework
> "too" errant?
Was our image of Jesus too far from the real Jesus? If we
> are "too"
errant for salvation, but did not know it, are we saved? These
> are
mighty questions.
>
> To be totally honest, I cannot
say with complete certainty that mormons
> are not saved. Maybe their
degree of errancy in their image of God and
> Christ falls within the
"saved" camp. However, from what I read in the
> Bible, I believe that
they are on the "too errant" side. That is why I
> spend the time I do
on TT doing what I do. If I did not care I would be
> silent. If I
thought that they were "in the fold", I would say to them
> "Welcome,
brothers and sisters."
>
> Perry
>
>>From: "Lance
Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: <[email protected]>
>>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
>>Date: Sun,
26 Jun 2005 15:28:13 -0400
>>
>>Interesting! (there's that
word again) Every christian believer believes
>>'through' an errant
framework. One may believe in a geocentric universe or
>>a flat
earth and, live out a fairly normal life. May one believe 'through'
>>a Mormon Jesus (assuming this to be a totally aberrant Jesus) into
Jesus
>>as He is? I don't know. What think YE
Perry?
>> ----- Original Message
-----
>> From: Bill Taylor
>> To:
[email protected]
>> Sent: June 26, 2005 15:06
>>
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Belief
>>
>>
>> Hi
Dave,
>>
>> We would probably have to go into
some further detail as to what this
>> word "salvation" means to us
before my answer can suffice -- or perhaps
>> even be understood
(and that is up to you) -- but the short answer is
>> this: "yes,
the only requirement for entrance to heaven" is salvation --
>> with one caveat: in Jesus
Christ.
>>
>> I believe that at the point in
which death entered the world, salvation
>> was necessary in order
to receive eternal life. Anyone who is mortal and
>> has died or
will die on this earth must necessarily be resurrected (which
>> is
the pivotal aspect in my view of "salvation"; i.e., death being
>>
swallowed up in victory) in order to live forever. In this view, then,
>> salvation is that which stands between death and an eternal life
in
>> "heaven."
>>
>>
Bill
>> ----- Original Message
-----
>> From: Dave
Hansen
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:03
AM
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Belief
>>
>>
>>
DAVEH: Do you believe salvation is the only requirement for
>> entrance to heaven, Bill? (BTW....I would be most
interested to hear
>> the thoughts of other TTers on this as
well.)
>>
>> Bill Taylor
wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
A very wise friend of mine is keen on opining that there will be
>>
many Christians who hold grossly heretical beliefs, who upon their
>> passing will nevertheless find themselves securely in heaven. I
agree
>> with him: if entrance into heaven is predicated upon right
and only right
>> thinking, then I suppose heaven will be a mighty
lonely
place.
>>
>>
Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Dave
Hansen
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>http://www.langlitz.com
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>If
you wish to receive
>>things I find interesting,
>>I
maintain six email lists...
>>JOKESTER, OPINIONS,
LDS,
>>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>
>
>
----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt,
that you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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