Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST

[Debbie Sawczak]

Well, for one thing, he is present in individual Catholic believers.   Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST Can you tell us in what ways the spirit is present? Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: NO CHURCH, NOT EVEN A HOUSE CHURCH, DAVID/IZ, CAN AVOID TRADITIONS LIKE THE PLAGUE. Where the two of you meet to worship, teach, learn etc. is replete with tradition. If it is not today then, it will be tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.   I say again that the Spirit of God is very much present within the RCC. The Spirit is also present at the Vatican.       ---- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 06, 2005 17:58 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST The “baggage” is all RCC, my dear.  Definitely there are traditions which overrule scripture in other churches as well, though not as many or piled as deep. The consequence being that I’m total non-denominational.  Our church avoids “traditions” like the proverbial “plague”.  If it starts feeling like something “we’ve always done that way” we change it!  I’m actually not against traditions, which can be good at times.  I only object to traditions that become false doctrine by contradicting clear scriptural teaching.  iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:35 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST   Thank you, my dear, you have just confirmed all the baggage I said you were attaching to the word, and have also (at the very end) answered my question with what can be pretty easily construed as a NO.   BTW, I have had a completely different experience of the Catholic church, its tradition and liturgy.     Do you think there are any "traditions" (in your sense) or idols or other clutter obscuring the view in our Bible-believing churches/congregations? Do you think there might be some you aren't aware of? What will be the consequence? Not a rhetorical or loaded question, I ask sincerely.   Debbie      ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:06 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST   Debbie, having come out of a RCC family background, you can’t distract me with switching word meanings.  I happen to know that in the RCC “Tradition” (with a capital T) carries much more weight than scripture.  I have been told so by the powers that be more than once. I even had one hard-core relative shove the Bible in my face and scream, “See this book? It means NOTHING!  Got that NOTHING!!!!”   Adultery, drunkenness, and lying were standard fare as long as you went to confession once in a while and did your “penance” (talk about works-salavationists!).  It’s amazing that I ever had a burning desire to know God, as I absolutely hated the “Mass” (ie: re-crucifixion of Christ to draw a crowd), and all the smoke and bells and robes and darkness and rules and bowing and chanting, and Latin mumbo-jumbo.  Talk about a voodoo ritual! It was haunting to a little girl who could remember once being in a sweet little country church with her Grandmother.    Therefore, when scripture says we are to have no idols before God, that is overruled by the Tradition which says to bow to statutes and pray to Mary and the “Saints”, using “holy” water, beads, relics, etc.  Or when scripture says that the overseer of a church is to be the husband of one wife, RCC Tradition says it is much better that he be celibate.  Or when scripture says we are all saints and priests, the RCC Tradition says we need “Priests” to intercede for us, and only the “Church Catholic” decides who is “canonized”.  I could go on and on, but you get the drift.  That is why the RCC is absolute anathema to me as a Bible Believer.  I realize that you can’t have both.  I pity those who have been indoctrinated by it without ever getting a glimpse of the real thing.  Iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:25 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST   MAN you guys get distracted by your own baggage attached to words! Certain words to you are just like red flags to a bull, regardless of what they mean in the context. (It reminds me of my 10-year-old son, who cannot abide the number 55.) OK, instead of saying "part of the Christian tradition", how about we say "part of the Christian community"? But we have already heard the answer, I think. The entire RCC is outside the fold, and any sheep who don't get out of there will find themselves on the way up the ramp to the abattoir. I get it.    Debbie    ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST   Exactly!  This is why we can never discuss the important things and why there is no appetite for God's Word Not any that is apparent to me anyway.  jt.   On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:31:48 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Lance, who cares about tradition???  Iz   Mark 7:5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?    6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.    7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.    8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.    9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.    10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:    11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.    12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;    13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.     From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:53 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST   I'm genuinely confused here, Terry. Do I understand you, Judy, Kevin and David Miller to be saying that the RCC is NOT part (a large part) of the Christian Tradition?   IMO, if you are then, you are all wrong. I'd go further and, say that you are all wrong in eyes of God. The Spirit of God, IMO, is very much at work in the RCC.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: July 06, 2005 13:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] All believers are ONE IN CHRIST   Lance Muir wrote: Up to now we have two who offer a resounding NO. I've not heard from Judy on this as yet.   So then, what is being said is something like the following: "Even if the Lord Himself has embraced someone, should that someone be engaged is worshipping Him within a tradition (RCC & one might insert other 'unacceptable' traditions alongside this one) I (insert your name at this juncture - Terry, Kevin) will not accept them as a sister/brother thus, ONE IN CHRIST with myself."   ================================================================== The only one I see saying the above is you, Lance.  Idolatry is not a tradition.   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com