There are put downs, Perry, and there are statements of compliment. The fantasy that "John is using yet another meaningless tautology" is a phrase that is of the insult variety. In fact, David's whole tone is such. Webster says what he says. And that is the sense in which I use the wording. David believes that you can separate the words of an opponent from the character of the opponent without being guilty of ad hom. I do not.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Perry Locke <cpl2602@hotmail.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:15:30 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ad-hominem discussion
John,
I do not think we can separate the ad hominem from logic, John. All discussion contains some form of logic, some form of argumentation, especially when our goal is to present and support a point of view. In it's simplist form the ad hominem argument is merely an appeal to emotion rather than logic.
Actually, David's statement is not an ad hominem comment directed at you. >From www.dictionary.com:
tau·tol·o·gy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tô-tl-j)
n. pl. tau·tol·o·gies
1. a. Needless repetition of the same sense in different words; redundancy.
b. An instance of such repetition.
2. Logic. An empty or vacuous statement composed of simpler statements in a fashion that makes it logically true whether the simpler statements are factually true or false; for example, the statement "Either it will rain tomorrow or it will not rain tomorrow".
The point, John, is that a tautology is always true, cannot ever be false, "states the obvious", adding nothing to an argument. In that sense it is "meaningless". In mathemetics, a simple example of a tautology is "1=1". What does that add to your understanding of mathematics? Nothing. In that sense it is a "meaningless tautology".
Perry
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I do not use ad hom in the sense of an issue of logic. I use it in the >same sense as the dictionary definition I included earlier -- that's my >story and I am sticking with it.
>JD
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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I do not think we can separate the ad hominem from logic, John. All discussion contains some form of logic, some form of argumentation, especially when our goal is to present and support a point of view. In it's simplist form the ad hominem argument is merely an appeal to emotion rather than logic.
Actually, David's statement is not an ad hominem comment directed at you. >From www.dictionary.com:
tau·tol·o·gy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tô-tl-j)
n. pl. tau·tol·o·gies
1. a. Needless repetition of the same sense in different words; redundancy.
b. An instance of such repetition.
2. Logic. An empty or vacuous statement composed of simpler statements in a fashion that makes it logically true whether the simpler statements are factually true or false; for example, the statement "Either it will rain tomorrow or it will not rain tomorrow".
The point, John, is that a tautology is always true, cannot ever be false, "states the obvious", adding nothing to an argument. In that sense it is "meaningless". In mathemetics, a simple example of a tautology is "1=1". What does that add to your understanding of mathematics? Nothing. In that sense it is a "meaningless tautology".
Perry
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I do not use ad hom in the sense of an issue of logic. I use it in the >same sense as the dictionary definition I included earlier -- that's my >story and I am sticking with it.
>JD
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
