First of all, Judy does not argue for the inheritance of a sinful nature but for an inheritance of sin.
Secondly, Adam's nature did not change with the eating of the fruit or he could not have sinned to begin with. Choice does not exist apart from the ability to make the wrong choice.
He was created with the propensity for falling away. It was not the tree "of good and evil" but the tree "of the knowledge of good and evil." Big difference. Why did they (A & E) hide in the bushes after the sin? Guilt !! They had received the knowing of their sin.
It is through Law that we come to know sin (Ro 7:7). Just as assuredly as covetousness existed before the law, so does sin -- but it cannot be so identified apart from law. There is no accountability apart from law.
Since no one on this forum believes in universalism, I can say without fear of contradiction that Christ's benefit is not realized apart from our partnership. Neither is Adam's benefit realized apart from our partnership. Ro 5:12 is a predictive certainty !! WE DIE BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE SINNED. And this is not the first time Paul has made this point in this letter ..... "....... all have sinned and continue to fall short of His glory .." (Ro 2:23).
When you argue for "sinful nature" in 5:12, you change the very wording of the passage. You have taken mankind's failure out of the equation and inserted his potential for failure. Verse 12 is not saying that we die because we share the same potential for sin. Rather, with predictive certainty, Paul declares that we die because we have all have done the very same thing -- we have sinned.
Adam was not an eternal being before sin and mortal afterwards!! If that were so, there would have been no need for the Tree of Life. Man needs a life source !! He was created this way and remains so. The Garden was never the goal of man's creation or God would have preserved the Garden or promised its return. Man was not just driven from the Garden, he was excluded from the Tree of Life. In fact, it is not because of sin that he was driven from the Garden. It was because of the concern of God that man continue to live (forever) after receiving the knowing of good and evil. The guarding angel did not prevent entry into the Garden, rather he prevented access to the Tree of Life.
Christ is our life. THAT has been the plan from the very beginning. Creation is not a completed reality apart from the inclusion of Jesus. Christ is not the solution to a problem so much as He is the conclusion of the work of creation. Just as creation on one day was continued into the workings of another day, so the creation of man is fulfilled in another time - with Jesus. In Christ, it is not that we live again but that we never die.
If we disagree concerning the story of beginnings, we will not understand Paul's theological inclusion of Adam in the same light. Adam was the door. Sin passed through that door onto all of mankind because all of mankind stood on common ground with Adam -- all sinned. There is none who can declare righteousness AND -- we have none to blame but ourselves. Not Adam. Not the serpent. Only ourselves. Death passed onto me because I sinned.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:37:47 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Humanity of Jesus
Judy wrote: >> We are all fallen because Adam fell and this is why >> death reigned and why we are so in need of a >> daysman redeemer. John wrote: > You continue to ignore Ro 5:12 which plainly > contradicts your theory. Why? Romans 5:12 does not contradict her. It says: Romans 5:12 (12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: He plainly says that sin entered this world by one man, Adam. When he says, "for that all have sinned," he is giving evidence for how we know that sin is inherited from Adam. The fact that everyone sins is very strong evidence that we have all inherited a nature bent on sinning. Read four verses later, and you see how he says, "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one..." This indicates death being something we inherited from Adam. Romans 5:17 (17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Two verses later, he says again, "by one man's disobedience many were made sinners..." Romans 5:19 (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Therefore, we inherited both death and sin from the first man Adam. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
