David: Have you ever thought that your USE of the Bible IS your problem? You
micro OK but, you macro BADLY! I shan't even add 'IMO'. Your 'theological
instinct' is weak at best.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: August 16, 2005 09:04
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
Gary wrote:
ftr, it really looks like JDs assessment is on
target and DavidM is in denial
It only looks that way to the ignorant when you take out the Scriptures I
had offered and chop up my quotes. I'm just standing by the Bible.
The quote from which JD takes his "we have sinned" is yanked out of
context
to say something exclusive of the context in which it was said. Here is
the
passage:
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by
sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Paul is arguing that sin entered into the world by one man, and death by
sin, the very thing that JD attempts to counter. Paul leads us from this
observation, which JD attempts to deny, to say that death has passed upon
all men, "for that all have sinned." The Greek word translated "for" here
is not "gar" (the way JD seems to be reading the passage), but rather it
is
"epi" which means "on." As I said before, Paul is giving us a reason we
have confidence that sin passed unto all men from Adam. The reason is
that
all have sinned.
Keep reading the chapter, and it becomes even more clear that Paul is
teaching that both death and sin have been passed onto us by Adam.
Rom 5:17 For if BY ONE MAN'S OFFENCE DEATH REIGNED by one; much more they
which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall
reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as BY THE OFFENCE OF ONE JUDGMENT CAME UPON ALL MEN to
condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon
all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as BY ONE MAN'S DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS, so by
the
obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
So, Gary, you don't believe in the Adamic fall or original sin? I am
somewhat surprised that you would depart from these particular orthodox
teachings of Christianity. Is this part of the neo-orthodoxy in America
now?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:52:40 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
JD:
You have taken mankind's failure out of the equation.. [while] Paul
declares that we die because we
have all have done the very same thing -- we have sinned.
DavidM:
<<..Paul's argument is that both death and sin have been passed onto us by
Adam. >>
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
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