John, the point is not whether Dave believes in 7-foot quakers on the moon
or not...it is whether JS can be trusted to lead a church after making such
a ludicrous statement. After all, he IS supposed to be a prophet!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:15:28 -0400
Yes, I did read that post. My point remains : 7 ft Quakers is a part
of this discussion because >....................................? I would
say that whatever the >reason, DH is not a co-believer in the Quaker
theory. How can anyone believe in 7 Quakers? For the same reason one
might >believe that King James was the first Evangelical or that the KJV is
>inspired AS A TRANSLATION or that the Law is still in full effect as an
>attachment to our salvation or ....................................well ,
>you get the point, no?
I think Dave has been pretty clear on this point, regarding his personal
belief. I do think it to be a significant point, however, if JS actually
made such a statement. Where and when was this statement made. Do we
have a reliable reference for the quote?
My reasoning for NOT being a Mormon, is centered in the belief that under
the New Covenant "system" of grace, the whole idea of "starting over and
this time, getting it right" as applied to the church is not something that
God would have done. It is unnecessary. From a doctrinal point of view,
the church FROM ITS BEGINNINGS was in error. Legalism and works salvation
were everywhere within the church and formed the basis for future error.
The early didache includes correction after correction. Romans and
Hebrews, and Revelations were written with a view [in part] for dealing
with some of these early problems. The fact that the First Church
continued in Judaism and ADDED the concept of the Christ while still
pressing for burnt offerings (ala Acts 21) could not have been more
revealing of the depth of the misunderstanding within the rank and file.
THE CHURCH NEVER HAD IT RIGHT.
The battle has always been between grace (chariti Christos) and works.
And, at the center of this debate is (IMO) a failure to understand the
importance and accomplishment of the Incarnate One , His life, His Cross,
and His indwelling. Peripheral issues aside, this is the center of the
controversy. JS did not have a clue as to the doctrine of grace. There
is no practical difference between Mormons, JW's and Missionary Baptist or
Church of Christers when it comes to their positioning on works. They all
misunderstand "grace" and the Cross.
DH is included in the biblical teaching of reconciliation as taught in Col
1:19ff. I am a proud pentecostal because of its inclusion of the whole
man in this business of becoming like Him. Holiness is not taught as a
path to God but as a revelation of a deeper walk. Christ is the center of
all attention and His grace is the binder that maintains the unity of the
fellowship of the saints. To insist upon doctrinal correctness (and ,
thus, "unity") is to press the impossible. We have proven that here on TT
in spades and to a person!!! The condemnation for his departure (DH"s)
has been removed. There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in
Christ Jesus" (Ro 8:1). Being found to be "in Christ" has little to do
with a denominational consideration. The Living Christ is not about
sectarianism !!!! He is about life and living that Life. It is about
obsessing about Christ (Gal 3:26,27) and nothing else. To the degree that
we can acoomplish this immersion , we have put Him on. It is one of those
imposs
ible possibilities !! Works salvationists believe , in practical terms,
that it is all about doing the right thing instead of being the right
thing. We get caught up in the peripheral and never get to the Center.
And so the debate goes on and on and on.
Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:58:31 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
John, the 7' Quaker idea comes from Joseph Smith's having stated that there
were people living on the moon,which he went on to describe. Pretty
interesting statement coming from a "prophet". I posted an article earlier
about where he most likely got this idea. Did you read it?
Additionally, Brigham Young (not to be outdone by the prophet, I guess)
suggested that there were people living on the sun as well! Another
non-prophet statement, in my opinion.
Perry
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>The answers DH has given in this post should end the matters under
>discussion. I would agree, that after whatever happened to Mary to bring
>the fetus that would be God/man into existencem the development and birth
>of that infant was quite natural.
>
>If DH believes more than what he said, well, he didn't say it in this
post. > What as been written, is clear enough.
>
>After the birth of Christ, Mary was still a virgin. Surely we all
>believe this !!
>
>Church leaders often speak from their personal convictions.
>
>7 ft Quakers is a part of this discussion because
>....................................? I would say that whatever the
>reason, DH is not a co-believer in the Quaker theory.
>
>How can anyone believe in 7 Quakers? For the same reason one might
>believe that King James was the first Evangelical or that the KJV is
>inspired AS A TRANSLATION or that the Law is still in full effect as an
>attachment to our salvation or ....................................well ,
>you get the point, no?
>
>In debate, one does not need to disprove something that has not been
>evidenced. And, certainly, not to one's "satisfaction." One of the
>greatest rock n roll bands of all time sings "can't get no satisfaction."
> And that seems to be the path taken in the Dean-o ,,.......... DH
>discussion.
>
>JD
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