Dave,
I am going to pull a "G" here and augment my own post...
Below is a reference to a page that begins to discuss some of the tests
of canonicity. For a fuller discussion I recommend "A General Introduction
to the Bible" by Norman Geisler and William Nix.
http://answers.org/theology/add_to_scripture.html
Perry
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:34:43 -0800
Dave,
Adding to the word is very dangerous business. If one is to believe Jude
3, and Hebrews 1-2, then one would logically assume that scripture is
complete. The operative point in our discussion is not that Christians
would or would not welcome new revelation...I beleive that most would if it
could be demonstrated to be scripture... it is that we believe no new
scripture HAS been revealed. But, as Jesus said on the cross..."it is
finished". His atoning work was complete. No more needs to be done, or said
to complete or augment the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is finished.
As for Revelation 22, I believe that is an admonition from the writer of
Revelation not to change Revelation. However, I also beleive that the
principle applies to all of scripture. If indeed Jude 3 and Hebrews 1-2 are
true, there would be no gain (biblically...although perhaps personally)
from adding to it.
There are a series of objective tests that books of the Bible had to
meet before they were considered scripture ("canonical"), and against which
new "scripture" is judged. There were many other books that, although
considered by some early christian groups to be scripture, did not meet
these criteria. When the mormon extra-biblical works are put to these
tests, they fail miserably. That is why we must take heed to take 2 Cor
11:3,4; Gal 1:6-9 to heart. The mormon works are heretical.
As for your perception of Christians as "myopic", I differ. First of
all, we are totally in accord with scripture. We start with the biblical
fact that "itis finished". We assume that Hebrews 1:1-2 is correct, in that
in these last days God spoke to us through his Son. We believe Jude 3 when
it says that the faith was delivered once for all to the saints. We are
applying objective tests to purported "new" scripture. We are being good
Bereans and searching the scriptures daily to see if what latter day
"prophets" are saying is true. We are "testing the spirits" of newly
revealed "scripture", including mormonism, and finding that it fails the
tests of "canonicity". My guess is that no one in the mormon theocracy has
ever honestly applied these tests to scripture and truthfully reported
their findings. How honest a scholar are you Dave? Are you the man to do
it?
Finally, I would not rely on Google for uncovering the truth about
anything. Especially if my expectations of it's ability were too high, and
my search techniques were lacking.
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:53:47 -0800
* It is not additional revelation that we object to, per se, and many (if
not most) Christians feel that if it is in God's will, additional
revelation would be welcome.*
DAVEH: That isn't the way I've understood most Protestants to believe.
If so, then why is there such a reluctance to /add to the Word/, so to
speak? When I've addressed the need for current revelation on TT in the
past, some TTers have used Rev 22.......
/[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy
of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto
him the plagues that are written in this book:/
.........as their (faulty) logic in dismissing the option of God revealing
more Scripture. And, I've heard that from more than just one single TTer.
It is a common argument that is used by many Protestants......and as
such, it would suggest that your above comment about........
*additional revelation would be welcome
...........* is not correct. Can you give me some examples of Protestants
making such a claim anywhere on the net? That is such a simple and
concise statement, one would think it would be easy to google it and turn
up a lot of examples of Protestants saying exactly the same thing with
exactly the same words. Yet this is what I got when I tried it.......
_/Your search - "additional revelation would be welcome" - did not match
any documents./_
........Which to me would seem very strange if it was a commonly believed
desire of Protestants.
* Many of us believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is complete.*
DAVEH: Which is why I think you are myopic on this, Perry. Are there ANY
Protestants who think otherwise? Doesn't believing in that manner suggest
that you would not welcome any *additional revelation*_//_, as it would
imply that your basic premise is flawed? How can you consider the *gospel
of Jesus Christ* to be complete, and then welcome *additional revelation*?
I can only assume that the *_many_* you mentioned below does not
include you?
*Should God choose to reveal more scripture it would be welcome*
DAVEH: As I see it, Protestantism would not be receptive to it at
all........especially, if such revelations were to point out the errors
promulgated by Protestant theology. I would be most interested in seeing
you find stuff on the net to support your above claim. I suspect you are
merely saying such to pacify my belief that Protestantism does not readily
welcome more revelation from God. If there are *_many_ * Protestants who
believe as you suggested....it should be easy for you to provide evidence,
Perry. Otherwise, I can only assume you are grinding your ax against
Mormonism.
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave,
* It is not additional revelation that we object to, per se, and _many_
(if not most) Christians feel that if it is in God's will, additional
revelation would be welcome.* And to many, additional personal revelation
is accepted.
* Many of us believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is complete.* That
the faith was delivered once for all to the saints (Jude 3). No more is
necessary, and what we have is sufficient for understanding God's will
for mankind, and attaining salvation. *Should God choose to reveal more
scripture it would be welcome*...but, to date, no works fulfill that
goal.
We have been warned in scripture that if anyone preaches a different
gospel than the Apostles taught, they are accursed. (2 Cor 11:3,4; Gal
1:6-9)
It is the heretical, contradictory, and unbiblical nature of the
mormon extra-biblical works, the nefarious background of JS, the lies and
deceit of the mormon church that we object to. These prevent real
Christians from accepting the mormon works as revelation, or as "another
testament of Jesus Christ". This all points to one thing...the mormon
system is not of God. THAT is what we object to. It is a FALSE religion.
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:04:34 -0800
*It is perhaps perplexing to them why you would so adamantly argue that
the Scriptures have been closed.*
DAVEH: Yes DavidM, that is correct.....Such does perplex us. I'm
suspect there may be other reasons as well, but it almost seems that the
argument for closure is just a knee jerk reaction because of JS's
contribution of post Biblical revelations. From our perspective, it
appears that Protestants have truly put the blinders on in an effort to
avoid hearing anything God might want them to know that is not included
in the Bible.
Apparently, the only thing that is going to be accepted in a post
Biblical sense, will be Jesus.....and that only after he shows the nail
prints in his hands.
If God felt the need to reveal his will through the apostles and
prophets of Bible times, it truly does seem strange to us (LDS) that
many Christians in this era would reject the idea that God could/would
do the same today. To think that God revealed everything we need to
know several thousand years ago, and that it has been 100% recorded in
what we know as the Bible.....seems a bit more than myopic.....it might
even be insulting to a Lord whose methods are claimed not to change.
/*It appears that such dogma comes out of convenience rather than
conviction.*/
DAVEH: To me, it seems more a matter of stubbornness, rather than
convenience. To allow God to reveal more than he has currently revealed
would simply upset the applecart, so to speak. Protestantism has
invested heavily in both time and effort building a framework of
theology that stands apart from Catholicism, and has adopted a no change
policy that would prevent anybody from making waves. IOW.....Why would
they (Protestants) want to take a chance on finding out that some of
their basic premises are wrong! It is much easier to assume correctness
of theology, and refuse to hear anything that might be contrary. Hence,
they stubbornly reject anything God might reveal outside the Bible.
David Miller wrote:
As for the Scritpures being closed.... I have expressed in this forum
many times in the past that my perspective is that I do not expect more
Scriptures to be forthcoming. Nevertheless, there is no mandate or
decree that closes the Canon. It is only an assumption we have that
there will not be any more Scriptures written until Christ himself
returns. I suspect those just before Christ came the first time
thought the same thing. Nevertheless, Christ did come, and soon more
Scriptures were written. The only reason such a point is necessary is
honesty in approaching the subject. I'm sure to the Mormons, who
believe that other Scriptures have been written, you appear unable to
think outside your little theological box. *It is perhaps perplexing
to them why you would so adamantly argue that the Scriptures have been
closed.* /*It appears that such dogma comes out of convenience rather
than conviction.*/
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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