cd: Respectfully David -Judy has stated dozens of times that she
believes Christ came in the flesh. Yet the group keeps denying she denying she
said this.Why can't people hear her?
It is not a question of whether she believes
in some form of flesh-like substance, Dean. It is a question of whether
she believes Jesus came in the flesh identified in Scripture.
jt: Identified in scripture? Nowhere in
scripture are you told that Jesus Christ is born into this world with a fallen
Adamic nature. You read this into scripture because of your "positional"
type gospel Bill.
When John states that Christ came in the
flesh, he is speaking of the very same flesh that Peter speaks of in his
Pentecost sermon: flesh which came from the fruit of David's loins
according to the flesh.
jt: The word flesh in scripture "sarx" does
not even have to mean the physical body Bill - flesh is also used for the
carnal nature. Mary and Joseph were both in David's lineage.
So?? Why the hangup with loins when Jesus had no earthly
father?
Hence when John writes that it is a spirit of
anti-Christ which claims that Christ did not "come in the flesh," he is
speaking of a denial of this exact same flesh -- the very flesh which he later
identifies as the "'Genos' of David" (see Rev 22.16).
What is this genos? Our
English versions of the Bible follow the KJV when translating this Greek word.
They call it "offspring," as in, Christ is the "Offspring of David,"
which is fine, as long as we are aware that genos is also the
root for our English word "genome," which is defined as "the ordering of
genes in a haploid set of chromosomes of a particular organism; the full DNA
sequence of an organism; 'the human genome contains approximately three
billion chemical base pairs'" (WordNet ®
2.0, © 2003 Princeton University).
Am I arguing that John understood the intricacies of the human genome
when using this word to speak of Christ's humanity? No, I am not -- and
neither did the translators of the KJV, nor even most of the translators of
our newer versions.
jt: No Bill; what you and John are actually
doing is denying the virgin birth ....
But Jesus did, and it was he whom John was
quoting in this passage (and this under the inspiration of the Holy
Spirit!). Yes, it is possible that John wrote knowing only that Jesus
was a direct descendant of David, but Jesus spoke knowing full
well that it would be two thousand years before the full impact of
his utterance could even begin to be felt!
jt: The Holy Spirit is the one who speaks
through the prophets Bill... and none of them are saying what you
claim.
And so, Dean, I ask you: What exactly is
being denied when John speaks of the denial of Christ come in the flesh? It is
the entire human substance of the Christ of Scripture: his complete human
genome, nearly three billion pairs! What "flesh" is there left to affirm once
one has denied its entire DNA sequence? My goodness, Dean, it is time
to recognize that it is not just the Gnostics who deny a human Jesus. It
is anyone who denies that Jesus Christ is the "Genetic Descendant of David"!
jt: You Bill are full of
malarkey.
Dean, it is one thing not to know what we do
about genes and genetics and the human genome (all words which find
their source in genos), and to then assume that Christ's flesh
was made of some sort of substance similar to but unlike that
of fallen humanity; but it borders on blasphemy to know what we do about
the human genos and then claim that
the flesh which John identifies as "Offspring" is not both explicitly
and genetically linked to that of fallen David and Abraham -- and
Adam.
jt: No it is the seed of the woman germinated by the
Holy Spirit. Fallen humanity come here by way of procreation.
Jesus did not.
Tell me - who is in denial around here??
Bill
----- Original Message -----
