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----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/5/2006 12:51:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Bill do you see any fault in the below?
Dean, here is a quotation from that passage: "If they (the frames and feelings) are not in us, it is a sure sign that though the wilderness became a pool, the pool is become a wilderness again."
I can agree that a believer can apostate to the point that God will take him home, so to speak, so as to prevent him from irreparable destruction. But I am not convinced that a true believer can lose his or her salvation, once having received the guarantee and seal of the Holy Spirit; for that is no longer the Christian going back on his word; it is God.
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cd: You are using the work "seal" wrong Bill. God uses the seal of the Holy Ghost to mark his property.The quarantee is that if we walk in Holiness we will be accepted by God.Why test something that has already been guaranteed for service and heaven?We Christians are tested.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Whereby ye are sealed - The Holy Spirit in the soul of a believer is Gods seal, set on his heart to testify that he is Gods property, and that he should be wholly employed in Gods service. It is very likely that the apostle had in view the words of the prophet, Isa_63:10 : But they rebelled, and Vexed his Holy Spirit; therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and fought against them. The psalmist refers to the same fact in nearly the same words, Psa_78:40 : How oft did they Provoke him in the wilderness, and Grieve him in the desert! Let every man, therefore, take heed that he grieve not the Spirit of God, lest God turn to be his enemy, and fight against him.
Webster Dictionary: Seal
6. To mark with a stamp, as an evidence of standard exactness, legal size, or merchantable quality. By our laws, weights and measures are to be sealed by an officer appointe and sworn for that purpose; and lether is to be sealed by a like officer, as evidence that it has been inspected and found to be of good quality.
7. To keep secret.
Shut up the words, and seal the book. Dan 11. Isa 8.
8. To mark as ones property, and secure from danger.
9. To close; to fulfill; to complete; with up.
10. To imprint on the ; as, to seal instruction.
11. To inclose; to hide; to conceal.
12. To confine; to restrain.
cd: Consider the parable of the sower:He heard the word of Christ, and recieved Christ-endured for a while-falls away when it got tough.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/3/2006 10:55:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
It may be helpful to distinguish between duality and dualism.
cd; Yeah what he said:-)
I'll defer to John's comments for now, Dean, as his are insightful and I do not wish to devote the time to the topic which would be needed to draw out the distinctions. Suffice it to say that (1) I see two distinct natures at work in the person of Christ prior to his death and resurrection: a human nature, replete with all the limitations commensurate with fallen humanity; and a Divine nature, which is fully God. (2) I also see two distinct natures at work in his person after the resurrection: the same Divine nature as before, along with a new, glorified human nature. (3) As it pertains to us as Christians, I see two distinct natures at work in our members: an old fallen nature which refuses to stay down (if you will allow some latitude with this language); and a new nature which is that of the resurrected Christ, as ministered to us by the Holy Spirit. Moreover, (4) I believe that the old nature will be erased in our resurrection, never again to rear its ugly h
ead; that will leave us with but one nature, the same nature which we received from Christ in the new birth.
Dean, I hope this makes sense and helps you to understand how I can find agreement with David on the topic of dualism, without desiring to delve into a detailed discussion on its distinctions in a separate thread.
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cd: Bill I can agree with yours-and Johns- presentation and of dualism in the brethren for a time. But I also feel one must allow for the guidance of the Holy Spirit to stronger levels of Holiness that will press the old man into total subjection for this is pleasing to God. Love would be the domination word for this as it is the domination emotion for us Christians. With love I will not get angry for being struck -with love I will not lust for the scantly dressed women my heart will pull back from that sin-love is the only way to fulfill the law of loving my neighbor as myself.Love will root out all sin in the flesh.As we grow in sanctification we are growing in love to where even dualism is no longer a factor for me as my union is with the father, Son ,and the Holy Ghost.Bill do you see any fault in the below?
J. Wesley wrote:
2Pe 3:18 - But grow in grace - That is, in every Christian temper. There may be, for a time, grace without growth; as there may be natural life without growth. But such sickly life, of soul or body, will end in death, and every day draw nigher to it. Health is the means of both natural and spiritual growth. If the remaining evil of our fallen nature be not daily mortified, it will, like an evil humour in the body, destroy the whole man. But "if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body," (only so far as we do this,) "ye shall live" the life of faith, holiness, happiness. The end and design of grace being purchased and bestowed on us, is to destroy the image of the earthy, and restore us to that of the heavenly. And so far as it does this, it truly profits us; and also makes way for more of the heavenly gift, that we may at last be filled with all the fulness of God. The strength and well - being of a Christian depend on what his soul feeds on, as the heal
th of the body depends on whatever we make our daily food. If we feed on what is according to our nature, we grow; if not, we pine away and die. The soul is of the nature of God, and nothing but what is according to his holiness can agree with it. Sin, of every kind, starves the soul, and makes it consume away. Let us not try to invert the order of God in his new creation: we shall only deceive ourselves. It is easy to forsake the will of God, and follow our own; but this will bring leanness into the soul. It is easy to satisfy ourselves without being possessed of the holiness and happiness of the gospel. It is easy to call these frames and feelings, and then to oppose faith to one and Christ to the other. Frames (allowing the _expression_) are no other than heavenly tempers, "the mind that was in Christ." Feelings are the divine consolations of the Holy Ghost shed abroad in the heart of him that truly believes. And wherever faith is, and wherever Christ
is, there are these blessed frames and feelings. If they are not in us, it is a sure sign that though the wilderness became a pool, the pool is become a wilderness again. And in the knowledge of Christ - That is, in faith, the root of all. To him be the glory to the day of eternity - An _expression_ naturally flowing from that sense which the apostle had felt in his soul throughout this whole chapter. Eternity is a day without night, without interruption, without end.
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