Justin,
I do have a question at the bottom of this email, that I think would be
good to get answered, so if you are time pressed, please skip to it.
>
> > I think that says quite a bit. It is my understanding that the
> > ASF will accept any license that contains the restrictions
> > imposed by the APL.
>
> That's not the rule that's practiced. For example, the MPL is
> an accepted license and the MPL contains a copyleft.
>
Okay, it should be an easy process to get a license accepted that fits
my description. I guess the process is more difficult when adding
additional criteria. From Ed's letter it sounds like the ASF's primary
concern is that they do not distribute software that they may not be
able to maintain and extend. And the ASF did not find the SPL adequate
to protect that freedom, while maintaining the current level of
flexibility their licensing model provides.
>
> You should refer to fsf.org to read the clearly stated definition
> of what free software is.
I have a good enough understanding of what constitutes free software.
It just seems like a lot of overhead on me as a programmer, when APL/BSD
software provides me access to the source without a lot of baggage.
>
> No, but your statement is typical of the kind of condescending,
> patronizing, "you just don't get it" attitude that has been
> expressed in almost every correspondence from ASF folks that
> I've received.
>
I am sure you are aware, but just to be clear to anyone who may be
reading this, I am not a member of the ASF.
>
> People got burned by the ASF, not by me. I did everything I
> could to resolve the issue.
No one got burned by the ASF, they started a new project to fulfill the
need Turbine had for a template engine. You did everything you had the
power to do all along, after this happened. And now there is a bit of
healthy competition with everyone able to benefit from the work of
everyone else. And I have heard many messages from both sides
requesting the past problems be "forgotten" and we move on, continuing
to try to work together.
>
> Sure. Or he can get clarification from a lawyer, or anybody else
> he likes. When you use WebMacro you are not using it under a
> dual license, you are using it under a single license. That's
> a simple legal fact that he can get out of anyone with any
> knowledge of software licensing--the FSF has such people, and
> so does the ASF, and so do lots of other places.
Nothing is hurt by going to the source, I do not know any challenges to
GPL or ASL licenses that lawyers can point to, so a lawyer's answer is
going to be an expert opinion. The GPL is a rather unique license. It
would probably not get tested anyway. If the FSF came up with an
argument against the ASF's distributing WebMacro, unless the argument
was seen as completely ridiculous, the ASF would probably discontinue
distributing it. Therefore it is better to get the answers up front in
the name of diplomacy.
> (WebMacro used to exist under other dual licensing schemes,
> I never considered the GPL to be adequate and there has always
> been alternative licensing available for WebMacro).
I agree with you that you have the right to attach multiple licenses to
your work. But what the hell do I know about it.
> He is not *compromising* at all. What he is is friendly, helpful,
> and willing to clarify exactly what his position and his
> requirements are.
That is good, so I am sure Jon will get back a positive response and
everything will work out again. I would like to find out something from
you. Given your current level of hostility towards the ASF, what would
you say to Turbine users who are concerned that future versions of
WebMacro could again fall under licenses that would make it incompatible
with ASF software? (Please do not take this as a chance to go off on how
it is the ASF's call.) I just want to know if the SPL that currently
exists which meets the requirements of the ASL, is likely to be allowed
on future versions of WebMacro.
John McNally
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