On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:06 AM, pedegars <[email protected]> wrote:
> > We can debate the "public figure" aspect and how it relates to > children of same in many ways. (SNIP) > > You're right about my viewership of The Late Show; since I've been > lacking a clear CBS signal for a few years now (perhaps even since the > days when I was regularly invited to fire up a Colortini), I'm reduced > to clip highlights in other arenas. But still, I'm guessing any jokes > he made about Mr Clinton still had more to do with his actions, not > his very nature of being (and I'm assuming he never made jokes about > him being an adult child of an alcoholic, or what kind of decisions > that prompts someone who is, to make). But the very fact that I have > to keep pointing out that distinction simply bolsters, not repudiates, > my initial claim of sexism. > > The fact is that DL doesn't have to keep telling 'slutty women' jokes > in order to be guilty of what NOW has charged him to be. The fact > that he did so once was probably enough. [cf, Imus, Don; "nappy- > headed hoes"] I am forced to agree with Kevin's recent response to you. No hard feelings - I just must have misinterpreted what you were after here. I thought you wanted to engage in some kind of conversation about the topic, while you seem to just want to state your view (over and over) without examining and supporting the various elements of the argument. I hear you saying that nobody should make jokes involving Bristol Palin, because you think she is a private, not a public figure. I also hear you saying that nobody should make jokes that sexualize women (I am not clear from you last response if you think the hundreds of jokes Dave told about Bill Clinton sexualizing him are acceptable). I accept that these are your views. I think you are wrong on both counts. Rather than just repeat "I think you are wrong" and let you repeat "I am right", I find it more interesting and enlightening to try to examine the underlying assumptions and assertions, see if there is any common ground or room for movement, or at least just see things from a different perspective. I see now that you are not really interested in that, so I won't keep asking you to do it. Since my jones for a good argument is unsatisfied, I will go trolling for one with Kevin - always a good argument slut (sorry if I offended you with that Kevin). The distinction between public and private figure gets close to what I think is the difference between Baldwin's joke about Filipino mail order brides and Dave's joke about Palin (mother and daughter). One way of saying this is that within very broad limits, comic's do not, and shoult not, take into consideration the "feelings" of public figures, or worry about "offending" them (Public Figure is a fuzzy category, but at least I mean celebrities and especially political figures). Lots of jokes were told about Mike Tyson over the years, including about much of his very bad behavior, and we don't care if it hurts his feelings - but I assume most comics did not tell jokes about the tragic recent death of his young daughter. If Bill Clinton were to make a speech in which he said that he suffers from a very difficult and painful sexual addiction, and he found it offensive, insensitive and inappropriate that David Letterman has made so many jokes about it over the years, he would be (and should be) roundly ridiculed. But if Dave just started telling jokes on national TV about his next door neighbor who keeps banging every young woman who comes through the door to the great pain and humiliation of his wife and children, then it would be Dave who would be (and should be) widely condemmed. Baldwin's joke was different from this, in that it was not about any particular person (or, if it was, it was about himself) - but in telling the joke he invoked a phrase that, completely unintentionaly, offended a group of people, so he apologized, I thought appropriately. Now, had Baldwin (for some reason) been telling a joke specifically aimed at making fun of mail-order brides, or people who use mail order brides, or people who become mail order brides, then I don't think he should have apologized, no matter how many people he offended. As it was it was the equivalent of farting in public, and he did what many of us do, which is apologize (well, I just blame my younger brother, but same thing). --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ TV or Not TV .... Smart (TV) People on Ice! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
