Look at this video at the 27-second mark. He doesn't just call for diversity. He calls for south Asian writers. https://twitter.com/colbertlateshow/status/988991809723318272 It can't be any more explicit than that.
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:02 PM, PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > No it does not mean this. As I tried to argue a few days ago, your > question is based on the false assumption that the critique of Apu is > simply that ethnic comedy is wrong. That is simply not what the critique > has been. Apu is not the same as Krusty or Willy or Dr. Hibbert; most of > the ethnic characters are involved in some ethnic humor or depiction, but > also have some kind of complication or twist. The criticism of Apu is that > he is based on a single, simplistic and condescending stereotype. Having > South Asian voices in the writing room is not a statement that only members > of an ethnic group can make jokes about that group, but an acknowledgement > that in this particular case the runners of the show have failed for 30 > years to fix this problem, so maybe they can’t be trusted to fix it on > their own. > > > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:33 PM Steve Timko <steveti...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> There's no question that writing rooms need to be diversified. The comedy >> writing rooms in particular seem to be dominated by Ivy League males. Or >> maybe it's just the comedies I watch. >> But Azaria seems a bit disingenuous to call specifically for south Asian >> writers. Does this mean they should have someone older than 72 in the >> writer's room so they can write about Grandpa Simpson and Mr. Burns? And >> if you have no Polynesian comedy writers, does that mean no Hawaiian, >> Tongan or Samoan characters? Do they need to check Inuit comedy clubs to >> get a writer so they can have Eskimo characters? >> >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 6:10 AM, PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Sorry - just saw you beat me to this... >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 5:59 AM Pete Ahles <pete.ah...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hank Azaria addressed the Apu issue on Colbert last night. >>>> >>>> https://news.avclub.com/on-the-late-show-hank-azaria- >>>> says-recasting-apu-seems-1825521305 >>>> >>>> >>>> Pete >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 12:36 AM, PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, there are quite a few Indians in the world; I doubt they all >>>>> agree about Apu. >>>>> >>>>> I think the point of the critique by Kondabolu is not really that they >>>>> make fun of Apu, or even that they invoke stereotypes. As the Vox article >>>>> says: >>>>> >>>>> “The basis of Kondabolu’s argument has never been “Apu must go away,” >>>>> or even “Apu is the most racist character imaginable.” It has always been >>>>> that The Simpsons is a funny show, and one that has given the >>>>> character of Apu more dimensions than a lot of shows would have. But it >>>>> still has a massive blind spot when it comes to a character voiced by a >>>>> white man with a stereotypical Indian accent, who remains stuck in a >>>>> dead-end job.” >>>>> >>>>> I doubt there is a single joke that the Simpsons have done about Apu >>>>> that in itself is unacceptable or over the line. It is more that the basic >>>>> depiction so lazily and simplistic relies on the easiest and more >>>>> superficial cliche, that the structure of the show does not allow to be >>>>> developed or enlarged. As I say, this is a problem for the show in many >>>>> ways, and one reason why the last ten (fifteen?) years of the show have >>>>> been so much less impressive than the first ten. But it shows up most with >>>>> characters from backgrounds that most Americans have so little exposure >>>>> to, >>>>> and are treated so narrowly. >>>>> >>>>> Apu is not really like Krusty; Krusty is based on a particular type of >>>>> Jewish caricature (kind of a Borscht Belt Comic) - but that in itself is a >>>>> richer and more textured and less obvious template than the Indian 7-11 >>>>> operator. If the Simpsons had started in the 1930s and featured a Jewish >>>>> character who was a cheap, greedy banker it would be less funny. >>>>> Similarly, >>>>> it would be less funny if its main Black character was depicted as a white >>>>> man in black face. Instead though, two of the main Black characters on the >>>>> show are based on less obvious stereoptypes (one a doctor, the other a >>>>> police officer). The character of Apu is not as bad as either of the >>>>> extreme examples I suggest here, but it shares some of the problems. >>>>> >>>>> There are lots of ways to disagree with or at least temper this >>>>> critique; I myself only find it partially persuasive; but the dismissive >>>>> and, again, simplistic way they did it in that episode was beneath The >>>>> Simpsons. The critique was not simply a politically correct “don’t make >>>>> fun >>>>> of our minority group”, and to try to escape it by saying they can’t take >>>>> a >>>>> joke only shows they were not really listening. I am not a creative, funny >>>>> person, but the Simpson’s writing room is full of people who are - the >>>>> response should have been more along the lines of: “Yeah - and 30 years >>>>> later Bart is still 10 and Homer is still fat and stupid; if you are >>>>> looking for complex, realistic depictions you have probably come to the >>>>> wrong place”. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 1:46 PM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I appreciate the sensitivity to privilege in this thread (and the >>>>>>> ambivalence). Recognizing privilege doesn’t mean silencing yourself, it >>>>>>> does mean really seeking out and listening to those with a different >>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m familiar with the Indian perspective. I value it and respect that >>>>>> on the issue of Indian offense, their opinion carries greater weight. My >>>>>> opinion is not to say the depiction isn’t stereotypical, but that the >>>>>> entire series is constructed on stereotypes (not just racial but social, >>>>>> theological, sexual, and on), and its humor is found predominantly in >>>>>> tweaking those stereotypes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apu is no better or worse off than any other average supporting >>>>>> character on the series. Sometimes he’s included as an equal part of the >>>>>> gang (bowling league, barbershop quartet...), other times he’s on the >>>>>> fringe. Sometimes he’s the hero, other times he’s the comic foil. I’m >>>>>> sure >>>>>> jokes have been made at his expense, and I’m sure his ethnicity was a >>>>>> topic >>>>>> of some of them (like I said, I concede the Indians perspective is >>>>>> valid), >>>>>> but my perspective is that Apu is as sympathetic an Indian character as >>>>>> Smithers is a sympathetic closeted-homosexual character. >>>>>> >>>>>> Overwhelmingly, the jokes made at their expense come from the mouth >>>>>> of an ignorant character. I suspect that in a real life town with roughly >>>>>> the same demographics as Springfield, a non-fiction Apu would not be as >>>>>> integrated into the community. I suppose Indians could attribute that to >>>>>> what they see as a negative depiction on the Simpsons, and I am in no >>>>>> position to argue that. But my perspective (the aforementioned white >>>>>> privileged one) differs. I defer to the opinion of the Indians, but I do >>>>>> not entirely agree with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is link to the Problem with Apu doc: >>>>>>> http://www.trutv.com/shows/the-problem-with-apu/index.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is a nice discussion of the Simpson ‘s Apu problem: >>>>>>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/ >>>>>>> culture/2018/4/15/17236336/simpsons-apu-controversy-no- >>>>>>> good-read-goes-unpunished-recap >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I really like about the piece is that it links this to broader >>>>>>> problems with the show itself- basically that one of its central >>>>>>> conceits >>>>>>> and arguably strengths (that the characters don’t change or experience >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> flow of time) makes it unable to depict growth and development- either >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the characters or its interaction with the culture. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the recent response in show was way worse than anything they >>>>>>> have ever done with the character himself. I don’t hate Apu and often >>>>>>> love >>>>>>> him, but the show at its best is worthy of a better solution to the >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> he poses. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 9:51 AM 'Greg Diener' via TVorNotTV < >>>>>>> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The problem I have is if you condemn Apu as being an Indian >>>>>>>> stereotype then you might as well do the same with Krusty as a Jewish >>>>>>>> stereotype and Groundskeeper Willie being an Irish stereotype. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If anything the character of Apu throughout the show has been a >>>>>>>> hard-working immigrant who has made something of himself and has ended >>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>> with a wife and family over the course of the show. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But again I concede to Kevin's point, white guy, privilege probably >>>>>>>> negates the opinion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-4, Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Did anybody watch The Simpsons on Sunday? I have only seen the >>>>>>>>> clip wherein Lisa references the Apu controversy, but the online >>>>>>>>> backlash >>>>>>>>> has been extreme. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I’m a white male, so I fully understand that my privilege negates >>>>>>>>> my opinion on this issue. If Indians are offended by Apu, so be it. I >>>>>>>>> consider Fisher Stevens’ role(s) in the Short Circuit films more >>>>>>>>> worthy of >>>>>>>>> condemnation, as his character(s) had more stereotypes than the >>>>>>>>> accent, but >>>>>>>>> — again — white guy. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kevin M. 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