Hank Azaria addressed the Apu issue on Colbert last night. https://news.avclub.com/on-the-late-show-hank-azaria-says-recasting-apu-seems-1825521305
Pete On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 12:36 AM, PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, there are quite a few Indians in the world; I doubt they all agree > about Apu. > > I think the point of the critique by Kondabolu is not really that they > make fun of Apu, or even that they invoke stereotypes. As the Vox article > says: > > “The basis of Kondabolu’s argument has never been “Apu must go away,” or > even “Apu is the most racist character imaginable.” It has always been that > The > Simpsons is a funny show, and one that has given the character of Apu > more dimensions than a lot of shows would have. But it still has a massive > blind spot when it comes to a character voiced by a white man with a > stereotypical Indian accent, who remains stuck in a dead-end job.” > > I doubt there is a single joke that the Simpsons have done about Apu that > in itself is unacceptable or over the line. It is more that the basic > depiction so lazily and simplistic relies on the easiest and more > superficial cliche, that the structure of the show does not allow to be > developed or enlarged. As I say, this is a problem for the show in many > ways, and one reason why the last ten (fifteen?) years of the show have > been so much less impressive than the first ten. But it shows up most with > characters from backgrounds that most Americans have so little exposure to, > and are treated so narrowly. > > Apu is not really like Krusty; Krusty is based on a particular type of > Jewish caricature (kind of a Borscht Belt Comic) - but that in itself is a > richer and more textured and less obvious template than the Indian 7-11 > operator. If the Simpsons had started in the 1930s and featured a Jewish > character who was a cheap, greedy banker it would be less funny. Similarly, > it would be less funny if its main Black character was depicted as a white > man in black face. Instead though, two of the main Black characters on the > show are based on less obvious stereoptypes (one a doctor, the other a > police officer). The character of Apu is not as bad as either of the > extreme examples I suggest here, but it shares some of the problems. > > There are lots of ways to disagree with or at least temper this critique; > I myself only find it partially persuasive; but the dismissive and, again, > simplistic way they did it in that episode was beneath The Simpsons. The > critique was not simply a politically correct “don’t make fun of our > minority group”, and to try to escape it by saying they can’t take a joke > only shows they were not really listening. I am not a creative, funny > person, but the Simpson’s writing room is full of people who are - the > response should have been more along the lines of: “Yeah - and 30 years > later Bart is still 10 and Homer is still fat and stupid; if you are > looking for complex, realistic depictions you have probably come to the > wrong place”. > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 1:46 PM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I appreciate the sensitivity to privilege in this thread (and the >>> ambivalence). Recognizing privilege doesn’t mean silencing yourself, it >>> does mean really seeking out and listening to those with a different >>> experience. >>> >> >> I’m familiar with the Indian perspective. I value it and respect that on >> the issue of Indian offense, their opinion carries greater weight. My >> opinion is not to say the depiction isn’t stereotypical, but that the >> entire series is constructed on stereotypes (not just racial but social, >> theological, sexual, and on), and its humor is found predominantly in >> tweaking those stereotypes. >> >> Apu is no better or worse off than any other average supporting character >> on the series. Sometimes he’s included as an equal part of the gang >> (bowling league, barbershop quartet...), other times he’s on the fringe. >> Sometimes he’s the hero, other times he’s the comic foil. I’m sure jokes >> have been made at his expense, and I’m sure his ethnicity was a topic of >> some of them (like I said, I concede the Indians perspective is valid), but >> my perspective is that Apu is as sympathetic an Indian character as >> Smithers is a sympathetic closeted-homosexual character. >> >> Overwhelmingly, the jokes made at their expense come from the mouth of an >> ignorant character. I suspect that in a real life town with roughly the >> same demographics as Springfield, a non-fiction Apu would not be as >> integrated into the community. I suppose Indians could attribute that to >> what they see as a negative depiction on the Simpsons, and I am in no >> position to argue that. But my perspective (the aforementioned white >> privileged one) differs. I defer to the opinion of the Indians, but I do >> not entirely agree with it. >> >> >> >> >>> Here is link to the Problem with Apu doc: http://www.trutv.com/shows/ >>> the-problem-with-apu/index.html >>> >>> Here is a nice discussion of the Simpson ‘s Apu problem: >>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/ >>> culture/2018/4/15/17236336/simpsons-apu-controversy-no- >>> good-read-goes-unpunished-recap >>> >>> What I really like about the piece is that it links this to broader >>> problems with the show itself- basically that one of its central conceits >>> and arguably strengths (that the characters don’t change or experience the >>> flow of time) makes it unable to depict growth and development- either in >>> the characters or its interaction with the culture. >>> >>> I think the recent response in show was way worse than anything they >>> have ever done with the character himself. I don’t hate Apu and often love >>> him, but the show at its best is worthy of a better solution to the problem >>> he poses. >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 9:51 AM 'Greg Diener' via TVorNotTV < >>> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>>> The problem I have is if you condemn Apu as being an Indian stereotype >>>> then you might as well do the same with Krusty as a Jewish stereotype and >>>> Groundskeeper Willie being an Irish stereotype. >>>> >>>> If anything the character of Apu throughout the show has been a >>>> hard-working immigrant who has made something of himself and has ended up >>>> with a wife and family over the course of the show. >>>> >>>> But again I concede to Kevin's point, white guy, privilege probably >>>> negates the opinion. >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-4, Kevin M. (RPCV) wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Did anybody watch The Simpsons on Sunday? I have only seen the clip >>>>> wherein Lisa references the Apu controversy, but the online backlash has >>>>> been extreme. >>>>> >>>>> I’m a white male, so I fully understand that my privilege negates my >>>>> opinion on this issue. If Indians are offended by Apu, so be it. I >>>>> consider >>>>> Fisher Stevens’ role(s) in the Short Circuit films more worthy of >>>>> condemnation, as his character(s) had more stereotypes than the accent, >>>>> but >>>>> — again — white guy. >>>>> -- >>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> Kevin M. (RPCV) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
