Well, there are quite a few Indians in the world; I doubt they all agree about Apu.
I think the point of the critique by Kondabolu is not really that they make fun of Apu, or even that they invoke stereotypes. As the Vox article says: “The basis of Kondabolu’s argument has never been “Apu must go away,” or even “Apu is the most racist character imaginable.” It has always been that The Simpsons is a funny show, and one that has given the character of Apu more dimensions than a lot of shows would have. But it still has a massive blind spot when it comes to a character voiced by a white man with a stereotypical Indian accent, who remains stuck in a dead-end job.” I doubt there is a single joke that the Simpsons have done about Apu that in itself is unacceptable or over the line. It is more that the basic depiction so lazily and simplistic relies on the easiest and more superficial cliche, that the structure of the show does not allow to be developed or enlarged. As I say, this is a problem for the show in many ways, and one reason why the last ten (fifteen?) years of the show have been so much less impressive than the first ten. But it shows up most with characters from backgrounds that most Americans have so little exposure to, and are treated so narrowly. Apu is not really like Krusty; Krusty is based on a particular type of Jewish caricature (kind of a Borscht Belt Comic) - but that in itself is a richer and more textured and less obvious template than the Indian 7-11 operator. If the Simpsons had started in the 1930s and featured a Jewish character who was a cheap, greedy banker it would be less funny. Similarly, it would be less funny if its main Black character was depicted as a white man in black face. Instead though, two of the main Black characters on the show are based on less obvious stereoptypes (one a doctor, the other a police officer). The character of Apu is not as bad as either of the extreme examples I suggest here, but it shares some of the problems. There are lots of ways to disagree with or at least temper this critique; I myself only find it partially persuasive; but the dismissive and, again, simplistic way they did it in that episode was beneath The Simpsons. The critique was not simply a politically correct “don’t make fun of our minority group”, and to try to escape it by saying they can’t take a joke only shows they were not really listening. I am not a creative, funny person, but the Simpson’s writing room is full of people who are - the response should have been more along the lines of: “Yeah - and 30 years later Bart is still 10 and Homer is still fat and stupid; if you are looking for complex, realistic depictions you have probably come to the wrong place”. On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 1:46 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I appreciate the sensitivity to privilege in this thread (and the >> ambivalence). Recognizing privilege doesn’t mean silencing yourself, it >> does mean really seeking out and listening to those with a different >> experience. >> > > I’m familiar with the Indian perspective. I value it and respect that on > the issue of Indian offense, their opinion carries greater weight. My > opinion is not to say the depiction isn’t stereotypical, but that the > entire series is constructed on stereotypes (not just racial but social, > theological, sexual, and on), and its humor is found predominantly in > tweaking those stereotypes. > > Apu is no better or worse off than any other average supporting character > on the series. Sometimes he’s included as an equal part of the gang > (bowling league, barbershop quartet...), other times he’s on the fringe. > Sometimes he’s the hero, other times he’s the comic foil. I’m sure jokes > have been made at his expense, and I’m sure his ethnicity was a topic of > some of them (like I said, I concede the Indians perspective is valid), but > my perspective is that Apu is as sympathetic an Indian character as > Smithers is a sympathetic closeted-homosexual character. > > Overwhelmingly, the jokes made at their expense come from the mouth of an > ignorant character. I suspect that in a real life town with roughly the > same demographics as Springfield, a non-fiction Apu would not be as > integrated into the community. I suppose Indians could attribute that to > what they see as a negative depiction on the Simpsons, and I am in no > position to argue that. But my perspective (the aforementioned white > privileged one) differs. I defer to the opinion of the Indians, but I do > not entirely agree with it. > > > > >> Here is link to the Problem with Apu doc: >> http://www.trutv.com/shows/the-problem-with-apu/index.html >> >> Here is a nice discussion of the Simpson ‘s Apu problem: >> >> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/culture/2018/4/15/17236336/simpsons-apu-controversy-no-good-read-goes-unpunished-recap >> >> What I really like about the piece is that it links this to broader >> problems with the show itself- basically that one of its central conceits >> and arguably strengths (that the characters don’t change or experience the >> flow of time) makes it unable to depict growth and development- either in >> the characters or its interaction with the culture. >> >> I think the recent response in show was way worse than anything they have >> ever done with the character himself. I don’t hate Apu and often love him, >> but the show at its best is worthy of a better solution to the problem he >> poses. >> >> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 9:51 AM 'Greg Diener' via TVorNotTV < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> The problem I have is if you condemn Apu as being an Indian stereotype >>> then you might as well do the same with Krusty as a Jewish stereotype and >>> Groundskeeper Willie being an Irish stereotype. >>> >>> If anything the character of Apu throughout the show has been a >>> hard-working immigrant who has made something of himself and has ended up >>> with a wife and family over the course of the show. >>> >>> But again I concede to Kevin's point, white guy, privilege probably >>> negates the opinion. >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-4, Kevin M. (RPCV) wrote: >>>> >>>> Did anybody watch The Simpsons on Sunday? I have only seen the clip >>>> wherein Lisa references the Apu controversy, but the online backlash has >>>> been extreme. >>>> >>>> I’m a white male, so I fully understand that my privilege negates my >>>> opinion on this issue. If Indians are offended by Apu, so be it. I consider >>>> Fisher Stevens’ role(s) in the Short Circuit films more worthy of >>>> condemnation, as his character(s) had more stereotypes than the accent, but >>>> — again — white guy. >>>> -- >>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > Kevin M. (RPCV) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
