Ardent was right on both counts.  Datastage can claim to be an excellent
Data Warehousing tool, and people do flinch on buying a MV database.  The
two statements are not really at odds.  Most people will claim to embrace
the philosophy that VARs sell solutions, not databases, but in the sales and
marketing cycle the focus somehow shifts back to the database anyway.  As
with Datastage, focus must remain on the end-product.

The problem comes in when prospects ask questions like:
- where can I get education?
- who uses it?  (Most people like to follow winners, not lead uncertainty.)
- where can I get people to support it?

If the MV community creates a firm set of answers these questions, then the
"stigma" of MV can be overcome.  Unfortunately MV is not taught in schools,
you can't buy books on the subject off the shelf, and there aren't many
MV/Pick job wanted/available ads in the paper to support the claim that it's
easy to find talent.  MV vendors and VARs must collaborate to create and
support free education and information resources (like this forum) to insure
that end-users see a healthy marketplace.  Only then can we deal with a
situation like "Ardent Management were saying that they don't know why
anyone would buy a multivalue database".  How about IBM sponsoring regional
two week seminars covering everything possible (in the time allotted) about
Universe?  Put people in the work force who have MV skills and it will be
much easier to sell an MV solution.

Tony
Nebula R&D


>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of djordan
>Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:41 PM
>To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
>Subject: RE: [ot] Peoplesoft migrates to Ascential
>
>
>Hi Dawn
>
>The arguments we had with Ardent management on this.  Ardent 
>Management were saying that they don't know why anyone would 
>buy a multivalue database, whilst on the other hand they were 
>promoting Datastage a UniVerse product, as being one of the 
>best Datawarehousing tools on the market.  Figure?
>
>Not only is it a pick embeded application, Datastage has 
>outstanding capabilitions in data integration with impressive 
>benchmarks for data loads (I think it still holds the record 
>for dataloading) which flys in the face of the critiscms of 
>Pick for interoperability.  Sure datastage has added other 
>facilities on, but if Datastage can do it so can Universe.
>
>Regards
>David Jordan
>Managing Consultant
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Dacono Holdings Pty Ltd
>Business & Technology Consulting
>PO Box 909
>Lane Cove 
>NSW 2066
>Australia
>Ph 61 2 9418 8329
>Fax 61 2 9427 2371
>www.dacono.com.au 
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis
>Sent: Friday, 30 January 2004 6:16 AM
>To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
>Subject: RE: [ot] Peoplesoft migrates to Ascential
>
>
>I knew all of this except that I thought that DataStage still 
>ran on Universe, not a modified clone of Universe.  So, this 
>does add to my MultiValue database picture another imbedded 
>PICK engine in a product and gets the Ascential company into 
>the MultiValue Family Tree picture (next time I update it).  
>Thanks to all for the clarifications.  --dawn
>
>Dawn M. Wolthuis
>Tincat Group, Inc.
>www.tincat-group.com
>
>Take and give some delight today.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>On Behalf Of David T. Meeks
>Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:55 AM
>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>Subject: RE: [ot] Peoplesoft migrates to Ascential
>
>
>Ascential is basically VMark/Ardent.  Almost all of the 
>engineering, sales, support staff that were responsible for 
>Universe up until UV Rel 9.6 work for 
>Ascential (myself and Glenn being two you've come to know over the
>years)
>
>When the split occurred, IBM retained the rights to 
>sell/develop the UniVerse product, as well as the former 
>UniData engineers who were trained on the 
>internals of UnIverse.  They now are responsible for UV 
>releases, with UV Rel 10 being the first release to come from there.  
>
>Ascential also kept the rights to the source code.  Internal 
>to the DataStage 
>product set (specifically what is known as DataStage Server, 
>not to be confused with DataStage PX, TX, or 390) is the 
>UniVerse engine, re-branded the 
>DataStage Engine.  It is only available as part of the DS 
>Server package.
>
>So no, Ascential is not a Universe customer.  However, IBM is 
>an Ascential customer and reseller.  They resell the DataStage 
>product suite.
>
>It does increase the footprint of enterprises around the world 
>that have one of those MV engines running at their site, though.
>
>Dave
>
>At 08:30 AM 1/29/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Thanks for passing that along.  Is Ascential a Universe 
>customer of IBM's or did they end up taking Universe and 
>changing it so that they are yet another flavor of 'PICK' (not 
>yet on my MultiValue Family Tree diagram)?  If so, is it now 
>called something other than Universe? 
>Thanks.  --dawn 
>===============================================================
>=========
>David T. Meeks                     || "All my life I'm taken 
>by surprise Architect, Technology Office       ||  I'm 
>someone's waste of time Ascential Software                 ||  
>Now I walk a balanced line [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>||  and step into tomorrow" - IQ 
>===============================================================
>=========
>
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