Hello Cheng-Chia Tseng , Thank you for your valuable feedback, I appreciate your opinion. I do agree on " problem is more about the ways of cooperation than choices of translation platform ". Thank you for the link, I will certainly review it :)
Have a nice day, karni On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Michal Karnicki <[email protected]> 於 2015年4月1日 星期三寫道： > >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think iPhone, Windows Phone and Android >> (among others) use different formats. Transifex seems to support po files, >> though [1] >> >> Hey all, I wanted to open up with saying THANK YOU to your sustained >> contributions to translations. It's an amazing and helpful community we >> have here. I had a discussion with David, which I'd like to summarize here. >> >> Let me first say that I am very happy and pleased Telegram team was kind >> enough to agree to open up Transifex for Telegram for Ubuntu translation. >> They're amazing bunch of folks, and I think this shows they care about >> Telegram presence on other platforms as well. While re-using string >> translations done for other Telegram clients in Transifex sounds promising >> and encouraging, there is a concern whether at current stage of our project >> it wouldn't introduce coordinating issues. I won't get too much into detail >> now, but after listening to David's opinion I recognize those matters. >> >> However, since this was brought up by Ask, I would be keen to know >> whether community would be willing to do the following research work that >> would bring us closer to making good use of Transifex, should we choose to >> do so in the future. >> Please voice in whoever's familiar with Transifex translations. Android >> app uses this sort of compressed string placeholders, like, for "Secret >> chat cancelled" you would have something like (just an example) >> "SecretCancel" placeholder in the source, which in turn is translated to >> 'Secret chat cancelled' in different languages. Does Transifex suggestion >> engine (for already translated strings) make use of those placeholders as >> keys? *If* it does, it would be interesting to evaluate how much effort it >> would be to: >> 1) replace all strings the source with placeholders (re-using as much >> placeholders from other clients as possible, say Android - as we used that >> to model our own client) >> 2) ensure this doesn't do havoc in already made Launchpad translations >> (i.e. we have to distinguish here that we're making use of msgid field, not >> msgstr) >> >> If that is possible, I would expect we can have ~95% strings covered in >> our app based on strings from other clients. At the same time, I would like >> to make sure that our translators community efforts are preserved, if we do >> decide to make the switch eventually. >> >> To conclude - we're sticking for Launchpad translations for time being, >> but it would be great if anyone interested could explore the above >> mentioned area, that I'm currently simply not at capacity that I could >> address it myself (or at least on my own :) ). >> >> Let me know what you think, have a great day, >> karni >> > > > From my view as an translator, Transifex is just another translation > platform. I would like my workflow on ubuntu translation could be done > toally on Launchpad without creating another account and translate just for > one app. > > However, translators have to have some conversations with those > translators on Transifex to make the translated terms consistent on all > platforms which Telegram translation style guide asks. [1] > > I think the problem is more about the ways of cooperation than choices of > translation platform. > > It is more comfortable that we stick to Launchpad. > > 1. https://core.telegram.org/translating_telegram > > >> >> [1] http://docs.transifex.com/developer/formats/gettext >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 11:53 AM, marcoslans <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> So Telegram translations in Transifex use xml format not po format. >>> Merging would be a hard job for most of translators. >>> >>> On 01/04/15 10:50, Ask Hjorth Larsen wrote: >>> > Thank you karni :) >>> > >>> > So in conclusion, I understand that some advantage can be gained by >>> > merging, but it's probably difficult to achieve automatically in a >>> > meaningful way. Translators could do it though by downloading the >>> > po-files and running msgmerge. Thank you! >>> > >>> > Best regards >>> > Ask >>> > >>> > 2015-03-31 18:18 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki >>> > <[email protected]>: >>> >> Hi Ask (what a nice, interesting name! :) ), >>> >> >>> >> a) Yes, I've been pointed to Transifex documentation by rvr. It's great >>> >> they >>> >> also support po files! >>> >> >>> >> b) when I said UI flows I rather meant things like "ok, Android doesn't >>> >> have >>> >> this dialog, but has one button more here" or "they don't support >>> >> entering >>> >> contact phone [imported from phone book], so we'll need to figure which >>> >> other strings can we use here", etc. Meaning, the UI's are not same, but >>> >> indeed very close. I guess if we reused their strings, but ended up with >>> >> a >>> >> couple untranslated, would still be a fantastic opportunity. >>> >> >>> >> c) Yes. Telegram for Ubuntu was Canonical effort to have a usable instant >>> >> messenger for the phone (I won't get here into much detailed plans around >>> >> that), but as you know - Canonical isn't a big company, so ideally we'll >>> >> arrive at the point where the code base is much more inviting and we >>> >> could >>> >> sustain it with community contributions. Going back to the subject - the >>> >> UI's are very similar, but the strings are not reused (you may have >>> >> noticed >>> >> Android uses short compressed strings as keys for translating, whereas >>> >> our >>> >> QML already contains English phrases. If we wanted to reuse that, we >>> >> would >>> >> have to go through the whole source, and replace our text with those >>> >> key-placeholders, for which I know I don't have time :( ). >>> >> >>> >> Certainly the strings are reused visually - we took what we saw in >>> >> Android >>> >> Telegram UI and added stuff to Telegram for Ubuntu, so while it's not >>> >> feasable with current resources, it's something (re-use of strings) that >>> >> we >>> >> could certainly do with some community help (community in general, I'm >>> >> not >>> >> thinking specifically about translators here, notably because this >>> >> requires >>> >> at least minimal knowledge about the source/build/etc). >>> >> >>> >> Thank you for your valuable feedback, I'm very happy we're having this >>> >> kind >>> >> of interaction! >>> >> >>> >> Sincerely, >>> >> karni >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen <[email protected]> >>> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello Michal >>> >>> >>> >>> 2015-03-31 17:19 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki >>> >>> <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> I have to admit I wasn't aware of that page. Now that I think of it, it >>> >>>> would be really awesome to reuse the strings from one of those apps, >>> >>>> however >>> >>>> it may be difficult. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> a) Currently I'm the only internal developer + one actively >>> >>>> contributing >>> >>>> community developer on "Telegram for Ubuntu" and as such, our resources >>> >>>> are >>> >>>> limited. We're working on features, while trying to find time for bug >>> >>>> fixes. >>> >>>> I doubt we'd find time to try convert Transifex output to a pot form - >>> >>>> but >>> >>>> perhaps you know if it does support gettext format out of the box? Is >>> >>>> it >>> >>>> available for download? >>> >>> >>> >>> a) po-files can be exported from Transifex without any problem. One >>> >>> can then use msgmerge from gettext to move strings from one po-file >>> >>> into another to the extent that they are identical or nearly identical >>> >>> (will be marked as "fuzzy"; but that feature is, painfully, not >>> >>> supported by Launchpad). >>> >>> >>> >>>> b) If we were to reuse those, we would have to re-align our app in some >>> >>>> places for those strings to match our UI flows. >>> >>> >>> >>> I guess this would be the responsibility of the translator. Normally >>> >>> when we translate programmes we do not care much about the exact >>> >>> length of a string. I guess in many cases we have to be more careful >>> >>> on mobile phones. How do people generally test the translations - >>> >>> with a virtual machine? >>> >>> >>> >>>> c) I believe we're simply not enough feature complete and stable to >>> >>>> request >>> >>>> moving in to Transifex for our translations. I may be wrong though on >>> >>>> this, >>> >>>> so I will reach out to Telegram task force with a question. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> While we're not at capacity to reuse those translated strings, and I >>> >>>> belive >>> >>>> our community is quite strong, at the same time if there's anyone that >>> >>>> would >>> >>>> like to support the effort of re-using Transifex output for our app >>> >>>> (also >>> >>>> engineering-wise), I am more than happy to try support this effort as >>> >>>> well. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Thanks, >>> >>>> karni >>> >>> >>> >>> I understand now that the Ubuntu app is developed completely >>> >>> separately from e.g. the Android one, correct? If the messages are >>> >>> not reused between them, then probably it is not so important to worry >>> >>> about this. If they are reused, I'd say that they should be merged >>> >>> and then the translators have to review the formatting somehow. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards >>> >>> Ask >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen >>> >>>> <[email protected]> >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Hello (this particularly for the developers) >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> The telegram web page specifies a translation on Transifex [1]. Now >>> >>>>> we also have translations on Launchpad. How is this to be approached? >>> >>>>> Is one better/more official than the other? I assume there is no >>> >>>>> synchronization between them. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Best regards >>> >>>>> Ask >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> [1] https://telegram.org/faq#q-can-i-translate-telegram >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> 2015-03-31 16:31 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki >>> >>>>> <[email protected]>: >>> >>>>>> Yes, thank you Víctor >>> >>>>>> . We have a phrase with no format specifier (This contact is on >>> >>>>>> Telegram) >>> >>>>>> and one with two (n our of m contacts are on Telegram), and Launchpad >>> >>>>>> doesn't like it. We'll fix it soon, thank you for your patience. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>> >>>>>> karni >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Víctor R. Ruiz >>> >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> Hi: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 3:03 PM, marcoslans <[email protected]> >>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I get the same issue in galician language. >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> David told me in IRC that they are aware of the issue and probably >>> >>>>>>> will be changing the phrase, so skip it rigth now. >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> Greetings, >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> -- >>> >>>>>>> Víctor R. Ruiz | - All this moments will be lost >>> >>>>>>> [email protected] | like tears in the rain >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> -- >>> >>>>>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list >>> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>> >>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> -- >>> >>>>>> Software Engineer >>> >>>>>> Professional and Engineering Services >>> >>>>>> Canonical Ltd. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> -- >>> >>>>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list >>> >>>>>> [email protected] >>> >>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> Software Engineer >>> >>>> Professional and Engineering Services >>> >>>> Canonical Ltd. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Software Engineer >>> >> Professional and Engineering Services >>> >> Canonical Ltd. >>> >> >>> >> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ubuntu-translators mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Software Engineer >> Professional and Engineering Services >> Canonical Ltd. >> >> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com >> > > > -- > Cheers, > by Cheng-Chia Tseng > > -- Software Engineer Professional and Engineering Services Canonical Ltd. 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