Hi Guys,
I started this message to the list to alert others of Kerkythea - a
stand alone open source Render app that could be used with RS via OBJ
export. BUT it seems to have organically changed to a general topic
of how people feel about a mixed app environment and how people feel
about being open to many 3D tools in their toolkit along side RS or
not. This is great, its an interesting topic to discuss, so keep it
coming. I have changed the name of the message to better reflect this
change of topic direction. Below find a few of the past
relevant messages and history of this topic - to catch up :).
Cheers
Aidan
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At 01:44 09/08/2007, you wrote:
Hi listners,
As far as know the necessity for new 3d-apps is that 3d is so
versatile and complex area.
I have tried to make something usefull with RS alone, but in these
standards it can't include every part of
our work in 3d. As in painting, you need different brushes and you
need to know their ways to work in practise.
As in human anatomy it doesn't matter anything if you don't know the
basics of anatomy. You can do these things in
RS or in other app. Att the end it does'nt depend what app you are
using. Its the brush you are handling.
Still I would hope that RS would have a appropriate Opengl handling
as I have been customed to Zbrush way
of thinking. Zbrush is a tool offcourse with other tools, but still
it doesn't work along with RS I am soo stupid.
AND CARLO LANZOTTI! WHERE ARE YOU! :)
Sorry, I Couldn't resist that.
Ville Tirronen
Sorry, but had to lighten myself little bit :)
================================================================================
Neil Cooke wrote:
Hi Mark, List,
dangers of 100% single app dependance
For me that old saying is true ... the app you learn on is the app
you stay with.
I am not dependant on RS, it does not do what Corel does and does
not do what Photopaint does. But so far, those three ... 3D, Vector
and Bitmap editor ... are all this studio needs. They get any job
done that I need to do.
Plus I use less than a quarter of their available tools ... and
still feel as though I could not find a graphics job that could not
be done with them.
I got C4D but it isnt even loaded on my machine. The only reason it
isnt a complete waste of money is because in buying it I learnt
that I did not need another 3D app. Anyone want to buy an old C4D
suite? Can't even recall what version it was.
I started with Corel and Photopaint, Version 3, twenty years ago
and have no intention of loading any other vector or bitmap editor.
I started with RS three years ago and I'm flying!
My half a cent's worth.
Neil Cooke
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At 23:07 7-8-2007, you wrote:
Hi Jean,
"Aidan it's nice to see that you have a wider look at the CG world
than most people."
...snip...
... Zbrush - for Sculpting on hi poly meshes, Vray, Maxwell for
rendering. Apps for poly modelling only with no other features.
Let's hope things will open up once V6 is released: FBX support!!
(and Realflow)
I'm well aware of the dangers of 100% single app dependance but here
are some reasons why I stick with RS:
- getting too old & rusty (lazy?) to learn tons of other apps, even
if they are free
- to me, VSL is essential, which means: use the native RS renderer,
not too bad because it's superb and you can set up unlimited render
slaves (ok, limited by budget..) with only a single license.
- it's a massive allround package with only a few weaknesses.
Don't get me wrong: I agree with both of you but at the moment I'm
'stuck' with RS... however, I'm thinking of Vue, Zbrush and Blender!
Jean, Aidan, thanks for the interesting discussion,
-Mark H
======================================================================================
Aidan O Driscoll wrote:
Hi Jean,
"Aidan it's nice to see that you have a wider look at the CG world
than most people."
...snip...
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database:
269.11.8/940 - Release Date: 06/08/2007 16:53
This is my collection of 3D software : RS 5.5,
ShittyMessiahWorkstation, StrataCX the latest version, VistaPro
latest version, UVMapperPro, Vue4, Cool3D, Shade 5-7-8, Curvy3D a
special version with import, Gimp, wings3D, Ayam, JCAD3D, Cycas...
And my texture collection is about 20 000 textures.
Most of the single task (modeling, rendering, texturing) applications
can be mastered in a day.
I am looking for a .rib renderer for my personal project and to use
and test the 3D application I am coding right now. I found Air to be
the best choice because it comes with many simple tools to generate shaders.
I like working with many applications, like that no bug or problems
can stop you. I am independent. The price is also interesting : you
can buy an animation software but use freeware for everything else.
If you buy Silo, UV mapper, use Gimp for 2D, Air for rendering and
use K-3D for animation you have a very powerfull set of tool compared
to a single application.
Maybe realsoft could divide Realsoft in 5 independant application :
modeling, uvtexturing, shading, animating, rendering. Like that they
could sell it at a very low cost for each module.
I don't think I will upgrade to Realsoft6 soon, but I would
certainely pay to have the renderer alone.
Jean-Sebastien Perron
www.neuroworld.ws
=================================================================================
Hi Jean,
"Aidan it's nice to see that you have a wider look at the CG world
than most people."
Yes - thanks for that. I am a great believer in a 3D Toolkit which
doesn't necessarily fall down on just one app. I think it is
essential these days to have good import / export for this reason.
This because one may note the 3D workflow is breaking into specialist
apps for each area, For example Silo, Mudbox, Zbrush - for Sculpting
on hi poly meshes, Vray, Maxwell for rendering. Apps for poly
modelling only with no other features.
I myself have a number of 3D apps - Realsoft 3D, Lightwave 9,
Truespace 7.5, Silo 2, Hexagon, Vue Infinite 6, Messiah Studio, Bryce
6. In most cases I got each app as a competitive upgrade and / or at
a very good price. The way I see it - if the price is right and one
buys it, one does not need to use it right away. From their in, I
also found that once one has the app their are very well priced
upgrade offers in the future.
The apps I use most at the moment are Realsoft and one I did not
mention - Blender v2.44, more so Blender - I am having great
difficulties with RS on my PC at the moment due to OGL and stuff -
heres to v6 maybe. I also use Blender - because - in my opinion [ I
stress ], no one elses - the Character Animation tools are a tad
better than in RS at the moment. So typically I might model in RS and
animate in Blender, then I might render via Blender to one of these
standalone Render apps. Add to that a bit of Vue and / or Bryce for
veg etc. Also Blender now has Sculpt tools like Zbrush and can handle
large poly counts as required.
Right now I am using the excellent LWCAD 2 - a cad plugin for
Lightwave to knock up a rough of an extension I may be getting built
- WHY LWCAD? Well its excellent and it does the job fastest, thats
all and thats what matters. [ www.wtools3d.com ] - I asked the
developer of this tool ages ago would he consider a port to RS, he
may allow others to do so in discussion, but not himself - time!
So this is the kind of flexibility I like OR at least would like to
have available. AND as an aside I am really in love with the open
source side of 3D and Blender - I applaud this, which is hugely open
import / export wise AND therefore exposes one to lots of interesting
plugins and external tools accessible from Blender. I am still in the
middle of trying to get a Sculpted map from Blender into RS to give a
low poly mesh in RS the look of the hi poly mesh in Blender Sculpt
via normal maps. Experiment still ongoing, sent mails to list re same recently.
So - INTEROPERABILITY - in a word. In me you have a kindred open
minded soul who by the way would love to see RS connect with the
outside world much more than it currently is - it could only increase
the userbase and position RS right in their with the rest of those
apps. BUT maybe, peddling its own boat is RS'es unique way in this
market - we will all see - in this 3D world of increased
specialization as mentioned above!
Cheers
Aidan
=========================================================================================
I wish Realsoft could be used as a command line standalone renderer
with a RIB interface.
Jean-Sebastien Perron
www.NeuroWorld.ws
