Peter,
You speak about flexibility, but I speak about ease of use, intuitivity
and
consistency. My point is that the "bullet/list" formatting should not change
"automatically" the previous paragraph formatting.
When I do character or frame formatting (using styles or not) the
indentation
of the paragraph does not change (Thanks God for that!).
Indentation is paragraph formatting; "bullet/list" formatting should
not
change it. Unfortunately it _does_ change it and, in an almost _hidden_ and
difficult to see (and to correct) way! I explain:
- please, open the document I have prepared before
(http://www.fe.up.pt/~jmcruz/ooo.tests/test-format-parag-list.sxw) with
either OOo 1.1 or 2.0Beta
- put the cursor somewhere in the middle of one of the paragraphs of the List
identified by A (my 1st example)
- observe the horizontal ruler on the upper side of the window; notice the
marked values on the ruler: they show the indentation values of the
paragraph.
- Now, put the cursor somewhere in the middle of one of the paragraphs of the
List identified by B (my 2nd example)
- observe the horizontal ruler on the upper side of the window; notice the
marked values on the ruler: they show the _same_ indentation values of the
paragraph, but the real paragraph indentation is _different_. Is this
intuitive or explainable with any sense? I think not.
- Finally, put the cursor somewhere in the middle of one of the paragraphs of
the List identified by C (my 3rd example)
- observe the horizontal ruler on the upper side of the window; notice the
marked values on the left side of the ruler: they show the paragraph has _no_
indentation, but the real paragraph _has_ a visible indentation. Is this
intuitive or explainable with any sense? I think not.
See my point? I eventually can make a list bulleted or numbered appear the way
I want it to. But it definitely is not easy to do, nor intuitive! I think
things could be made both easy and flexible. If they were done right!
José
Dizia Peter Kupfer OOo em Sábado, 25 de Junho de 2005 19:07:
> J. Magalhães Cruz wrote:
> >>>>I have always found quite difficult to fully control with ease the
> >>>>usage of list anf numbering of paragraphs, both by direct formatting
> >>>>and by using styles.
> >>>>Before raising an issue in Issuezilla, I would like to ask anyone the
> >>>>following question:
> >>>>"Why are list/numbering formatting and styles separated from paragraph
> >>>>formatting and styles?"
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks all
> >>>>José
> >>>
> >>>I am just hypothesizing here.
> >>>
> >>>It is probably because they are two different things. I might want to
> >>>start a #ed list, but I don't want the paragraph formatting to change.
> >
> > This is exactly the problem that I face, Peter. I try just to insert an
> > automatic numbering in paragraphs that already were formatted in a
> > specific way, and their indenting is changed!
> >
> > My point is: the list numbering of paragraphs should be independent of
> > the general paragraph formatting.
>
> It can be, in the second example in your document. You can format the
> list to look how you want if you edit the position settings in the
> Bullets & Numbering setup.
>
> > So, why not just to add it to the “Format|
> > Paragraph" window?
>
> Because this gives flexibility. Using the numbering tab in the paragraph
> format window like you did in your 3rd example, you can achieve what you
> want, but if you need to use several different number formats in the
> your document, and don't want to change paragraph formats, then you
> still can.
>
> > On the other side, the “Bullets and Numbering” feature can
> > not be separated from general paragraph formatting; so, why is it that it
> > has its own independent window?
>
> All elements in the paragraph, frames, graphics, etc..., use the
> paragraph formatting. It is often best to create a whole different
> paragraph style if you are going to make a numbered list. For instance
> when I type labs for my students to do, I have a separate paragraph
> style called "Procedure". When I change to that style, the numbering
> automatically starts and all the formatting is how I want it. I also
> have a paragraph style for objectives which uses bullets. Do you see
> what I mean?
>
> > Finally, please note hierarchical lists could also, very well, be
> > integrated and handled inside “Format|Paragraph”.
>
> You could do everything that way, but that would take away from the
> flexibility that is currently afforded. You can either have many
> different Num/Bullet styles in one paragraph styles, or you can have a
> paragraph styles linked to a certain Num/Bullet style. It merges the
> best of both worlds.
>
> > Please, If you have the opportunity, try the following example:
> > http://www.fe.up.pt/~jmcruz/ooo.tests/test-format-parag-list.sxw
> > and tell me what you think!
>
> I did, and I don't understand your complaint. You can achieve the same
> look all three ways.
>
> HTH,
--
J. Magalhães Cruz --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
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