this has nothing to do with being open-minded. i'm pretty sure that most non-trivial projects out there using jpa with hibernate implementation can go through a big pain if they ever decide to "change jpa vendor". now that you talk about jpa, this is an example of how backward a spec can be: jpa 2.0 draft is only now addressing criteria, when we should be including statically-typed queries and so on (ala linq / quaere / jaqu).
granted the process might bring some benefit to wicket, but there are way too many disadvantages, imo. and i don't really see how wicket could become a sort of standard that gets different implementations. anyway, i think we've got waaay out of topic =) francisco -- http://wickethub.org On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Hoover, William <[email protected]> wrote: > I hear the arguments and I completely agree with the notion that innovation > usually happens "elsewhere" and a JSR/JCP would slow that process down. I > just want to objectively view the other side of the spectrum :o) > > From a developers point-of-view standardization can often be a thorn in our > side, but for management it can offer a > vendor-independent/implementation-independent solution. Maintaining/upgrading > infrastructure is difficult, expensive and time consuming. From the > point-of-view of management a standard can often minimize the risk of vender > lock-in. > > Another thing to consider is that a broader multi-community involvement could > also bread innovation. There may be other innovators from other communities > that may have valuable input that could improve Wicket in ways that may have > not been previously considered. IMHO, the biggest argument for JSR/JCP is > that there is often a broader involvement in the process. Hibernate, for > instance, was in a similar position a few years back when they introduced a > new persistence concept. They have since become heavily involved in the JPA > specification process. When I first worked with Hibernate, like many, I was > very impressed (similar to the first time I worked with Wicket :o), but > looking back at how Hiberante initially did things to how they do them now > there are some huge improvements due to the JPA specification. > > My hope is that the Wicket community can be as open-minded to this notion as > they are to the open source code they represent :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Johan Compagner [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:10 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Wicket at ApacheCon EU'09 in Amsterdam > > and what would a wicket "standard" give you? > Except that those idiotic managers then say "its standardized.. now you can > use it" why is that is a standard for ever? dont think so everything dies. > But would it run on more platforms? > Would we have multiply implementations? Because thats most of the time a > JCP/JSR does, it doesnt have an implementation, what wicket is, but a > description/interfaces what an implementation should do.. > > johan > > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:00, Martijn Dashorst > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Bill Joy from Sun once said: innovation happens elsewhere. I think >> that the where elsewhere isn't, it is the JCP. Standardization is just >> antithetical to innovation. Once something is fixed in brick/mortar >> how can you innovate? Wicket is very comfortably located elsewhere. >> >> Martijn >> >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Igor Vaynberg >> <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > we like the agility that the independence from any sort of a >> > standard >> offers us. >> > >> > -igor >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Hoover, William >> > <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Judging by the responses (or the lack thereof), It seems as though >> >> there >> isn't enough support from the Wicket community to push for something >> like this :( >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> >> Behalf Of >> Thomas Mäder >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:57 PM >> >> To: [email protected] >> >> Subject: Re: Wicket at ApacheCon EU'09 in Amsterdam >> >> >> >> I totally agree that the JSR process is horrid. However, Wicket >> >> could >> really use some more corporate credibility (which a JSR would provide). >> >> The problem, I guess is that there are simply no corporate >> >> interests >> behind Wicket that would push the agenda. What wicket need is some >> evangelism, but I guess all the core people have real jobs. What we >> need is less talks titled "why wicket is cool" and more "cut your >> development costs in two with Wicket". From experience, I am totally >> convinced that you can save 50% off your development costs if you >> switch to wicket (from just about any other framework), however, I've >> yet to find a contracting job here in Zürich where wicket is asked for (it's >> JSF, or even Struts). >> >> >> >> Thomas >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Johan Compagner >> >> <[email protected] >> >wrote: >> >> >> >>> And then come into the horrible voting/administive stuff? Long >> >>> Release cycles that are controlled, features that are discussed over and >> >>> over. >> >>> >> >>> Hmm >> >>> >> >>> On 12/02/2009, Hoover, William <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> > Just out of curiosity... Are there any plans to push a JSR that >> >>> > Wicket could follow. I think there would be a lot more >> >>> > acceptance of Wicket if this was to happen :o) >> >>> > >> >>> > -----Original Message----- >> >>> > From: [email protected] >> >>> > [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>> > On Behalf Of Martijn Dashorst >> >>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:33 PM >> >>> > To: [email protected] >> >>> > Subject: Wicket at ApacheCon EU'09 in Amsterdam >> >>> > >> >>> > We're happy to announce a lot of Wicket involvement at the >> >>> > upcoming ApacheCon in Amsterdam (23-27 March 2009) >> >>> > >> >>> > First of all we have 2 training sessions available: >> >>> > - Introduction to Wicket by Martijn Dashorst on Mon 23 March >> >>> > (http://tinyurl.com/aceu09wicket1) >> >>> > - Behavior-Driving Your Apache Wicket Application by Timo >> >>> > Rantalaiho on Tue 24 March (http://tinyurl.com/aceu09wicket2) >> >>> > >> >>> > Both courses are hosted by core members. Martijn has co-authored >> >>> > Wicket in Action and Timo has been involved with WicketTester >> >>> > and JDave. There is no better team to get you and your team up >> >>> > to speed with the finest Java web framework available and start >> >>> > cranking out fully tested applications. >> >>> > >> >>> > Martijn will also present Wicket in Action during the normal >> >>> > conference days. A quick introduction to Wicket's core features >> >>> > in >> just one hour. >> >>> > But attending the conference will give you much more: >> >>> > over 60 sessions covering your favorite Apache projects. >> >>> > >> >>> > Amsterdam is great, but Wicket meetups in Amsterdam are even better! >> >>> > We're attempting to schedule a Wicket meetup during the >> >>> > conference at the conference floor. Details will follow soon. >> >>> > >> >>> > Read more about ApacheCon EU 2009 here: >> >>> > http://www.eu.apachecon.com/c/aceu2009/ >> >>> > >> >>> > See you in Amsterdam! >> >>> > >> >>> > Martijn >> >>> > >> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > ---- >> >>> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> > ---- >> >>> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Thomas Mäder >> >> Wicket & Eclipse Consulting >> >> www.devotek-it.ch >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com >> Apache Wicket 1.3.5 is released Get it now: >> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
