I agree that we need to change the views of corporate managers in the "right way" by illustrating the cost savings achieved though a reduction in development time. At the same time, I don't believe that this will change the Wicket community in the "wrong way" (which is a highly subjective statement). I'm only presenting the alternative viewpoint. It is possible that a standard could potentially inhibit progression due to contrasting viewpoints within the community, but it is also equally possible that it could lead to a value-added aspect by introducing a broader input base to the Wicket community that could speed progression (Hibernate/JPA is an example of this). There is always a possibility that progress can be slowed as the number of members increase because there are more viewpoints to be examined/debated. I think that there is a higher probability that the community will grow if such a standard were to be adopted.
Just because there is already a specification for a "web framework" (JSF) that does not constitute abandoning a standard approach. Look at JAX-WS vs JAX-RS. They accomplish many of the same objectives, but they both are part of the proposed profile stack (http://www.theserverside.com/tt/articles/article.tss?l=JavaEE6Overview) . A Wicket implementation could orchestrate a refreshing alternative approach to JSF in the same manner that it does today. When I referred to open-mindedness I was referring to being open-minded to the ideas behind the push... I didn't necessary intended to imply that anyone would not be open-minded if they did not support a JSR :o) -----Original Message----- From: Dave Schoorl [mailto:mailli...@cyber-d.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:21 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Wicket at ApacheCon EU'09 in Amsterdam I am not sure what you would like to standardize. Given your JPA example, I would guess that you want to push a JSR for a web framework or something. But there is already something like that: JSF. Just let Wicket be Wicket and instead of changing Wicket (and it's community) in the wrong way, let's try to change the views of corporate managers in the right way. As Thomas said earlier "What we need is less talks titled 'why wicket is cool' and more 'cut your development costs in two with Wicket' ". And I do not think that the lack of support for pushing a JSR has anything to do with a lack of open-mindedness... Hoover, William wrote: > I hear the arguments and I completely agree with the notion that > innovation usually happens "elsewhere" and a JSR/JCP would slow that > process down. I just want to objectively view the other side of the > spectrum :o) > > From a developers point-of-view standardization can often be a thorn in our side, but for management it can offer a vendor-independent/implementation-independent solution. Maintaining/upgrading infrastructure is difficult, expensive and time consuming. From the point-of-view of management a standard can often minimize the risk of vender lock-in. > > Another thing to consider is that a broader multi-community involvement could also bread innovation. There may be other innovators from other communities that may have valuable input that could improve Wicket in ways that may have not been previously considered. IMHO, the biggest argument for JSR/JCP is that there is often a broader involvement in the process. Hibernate, for instance, was in a similar position a few years back when they introduced a new persistence concept. They have since become heavily involved in the JPA specification process. When I first worked with Hibernate, like many, I was very impressed (similar to the first time I worked with Wicket :o), but looking back at how Hiberante initially did things to how they do them now there are some huge improvements due to the JPA specification. > > My hope is that the Wicket community can be as open-minded to this > notion as they are to the open source code they represent :o) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
