I hear the arguments and I completely agree with the notion that innovation usually happens "elsewhere" and a JSR/JCP would slow that process down. I just want to objectively view the other side of the spectrum :o)
>From a developers point-of-view standardization can often be a thorn in our >side, but for management it can offer a >vendor-independent/implementation-independent solution. Maintaining/upgrading >infrastructure is difficult, expensive and time consuming. From the >point-of-view of management a standard can often minimize the risk of vender >lock-in. Another thing to consider is that a broader multi-community involvement could also bread innovation. There may be other innovators from other communities that may have valuable input that could improve Wicket in ways that may have not been previously considered. IMHO, the biggest argument for JSR/JCP is that there is often a broader involvement in the process. Hibernate, for instance, was in a similar position a few years back when they introduced a new persistence concept. They have since become heavily involved in the JPA specification process. When I first worked with Hibernate, like many, I was very impressed (similar to the first time I worked with Wicket :o), but looking back at how Hiberante initially did things to how they do them now there are some huge improvements due to the JPA specification. My hope is that the Wicket community can be as open-minded to this notion as they are to the open source code they represent :o) -----Original Message----- From: Johan Compagner [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Wicket at ApacheCon EU'09 in Amsterdam and what would a wicket "standard" give you? Except that those idiotic managers then say "its standardized.. now you can use it" why is that is a standard for ever? dont think so everything dies. But would it run on more platforms? Would we have multiply implementations? Because thats most of the time a JCP/JSR does, it doesnt have an implementation, what wicket is, but a description/interfaces what an implementation should do.. johan On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:00, Martijn Dashorst <[email protected]>wrote: > Bill Joy from Sun once said: innovation happens elsewhere. I think > that the where elsewhere isn't, it is the JCP. Standardization is just > antithetical to innovation. Once something is fixed in brick/mortar > how can you innovate? Wicket is very comfortably located elsewhere. > > Martijn > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Igor Vaynberg > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > we like the agility that the independence from any sort of a > > standard > offers us. > > > > -igor > > > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Hoover, William > > <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Judging by the responses (or the lack thereof), It seems as though > >> there > isn't enough support from the Wicket community to push for something > like this :( > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > >> Behalf Of > Thomas Mäder > >> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:57 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: Wicket at ApacheCon EU'09 in Amsterdam > >> > >> I totally agree that the JSR process is horrid. However, Wicket > >> could > really use some more corporate credibility (which a JSR would provide). > >> The problem, I guess is that there are simply no corporate > >> interests > behind Wicket that would push the agenda. What wicket need is some > evangelism, but I guess all the core people have real jobs. What we > need is less talks titled "why wicket is cool" and more "cut your > development costs in two with Wicket". From experience, I am totally > convinced that you can save 50% off your development costs if you > switch to wicket (from just about any other framework), however, I've > yet to find a contracting job here in Zürich where wicket is asked for (it's > JSF, or even Struts). > >> > >> Thomas > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Johan Compagner > >> <[email protected] > >wrote: > >> > >>> And then come into the horrible voting/administive stuff? Long > >>> Release cycles that are controlled, features that are discussed over and > >>> over. > >>> > >>> Hmm > >>> > >>> On 12/02/2009, Hoover, William <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > Just out of curiosity... Are there any plans to push a JSR that > >>> > Wicket could follow. I think there would be a lot more > >>> > acceptance of Wicket if this was to happen :o) > >>> > > >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> > From: [email protected] > >>> > [mailto:[email protected]] > >>> > On Behalf Of Martijn Dashorst > >>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:33 PM > >>> > To: [email protected] > >>> > Subject: Wicket at ApacheCon EU'09 in Amsterdam > >>> > > >>> > We're happy to announce a lot of Wicket involvement at the > >>> > upcoming ApacheCon in Amsterdam (23-27 March 2009) > >>> > > >>> > First of all we have 2 training sessions available: > >>> > - Introduction to Wicket by Martijn Dashorst on Mon 23 March > >>> > (http://tinyurl.com/aceu09wicket1) > >>> > - Behavior-Driving Your Apache Wicket Application by Timo > >>> > Rantalaiho on Tue 24 March (http://tinyurl.com/aceu09wicket2) > >>> > > >>> > Both courses are hosted by core members. Martijn has co-authored > >>> > Wicket in Action and Timo has been involved with WicketTester > >>> > and JDave. There is no better team to get you and your team up > >>> > to speed with the finest Java web framework available and start > >>> > cranking out fully tested applications. > >>> > > >>> > Martijn will also present Wicket in Action during the normal > >>> > conference days. A quick introduction to Wicket's core features > >>> > in > just one hour. > >>> > But attending the conference will give you much more: > >>> > over 60 sessions covering your favorite Apache projects. > >>> > > >>> > Amsterdam is great, but Wicket meetups in Amsterdam are even better! > >>> > We're attempting to schedule a Wicket meetup during the > >>> > conference at the conference floor. Details will follow soon. > >>> > > >>> > Read more about ApacheCon EU 2009 here: > >>> > http://www.eu.apachecon.com/c/aceu2009/ > >>> > > >>> > See you in Amsterdam! > >>> > > >>> > Martijn > >>> > > >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > ---- > >>> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > ---- > >>> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Thomas Mäder > >> Wicket & Eclipse Consulting > >> www.devotek-it.ch > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > -- > Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com > Apache Wicket 1.3.5 is released Get it now: > http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
