Totally divergent now but its an interesting topic.

We segment our Designers, HTML implementors and Java developers. Thats
probably the key difference.

Our designers work in photoshop or illustrator to pretty exacting
requirements. This lets us contract out design work to a variety of
firms specific to the task/project and they don't have to concern
themselves with our requirements. Lots cheaper for us and at the end
of the 'Creative Process' we are usually very locked on what is going
to be implemented, how it will look and how it all interacts.

We then have a stable of devs around the world who convert the layered
Photoshop document to CSS very cheaply and very quickly and know how
to work to our exact requirements.

We usually dismiss the entire design/html team after the initial
delivery which is often months before the project is completed. We
just don't need them for that project after that stage.

For us I've just found it cheaper and more efficient to entirely
separate these teams and thats actually a big reason I picked wicket.
It lets me do that very easily. $5k for the design process, $200 to
convert it to HTML and a month  or two of coding by a single developer
and you launch, its very assembly line and predictable for me.

So I think its a workflow diff. If your Designer is actually a really
solid hybrid Designer/CSS Person you can get a good workflow going but
I find them an expensive luxury that I (in my business) can't afford


On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Igor Vaynberg <> wrote:
> really? because we have quiet the opposite experience.
> we take a wireframe prototype, build it, and have the designer go in
> afterwards and pretty it up. with only a couple of hours of
> wicket-related training the designers know what to touch and what not
> to touch.
> -igor
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:15 PM, John Armstrong <> wrote:
>> Its amazing what designers can screw up :)
>> Design can have a huge impact on code. This peaceful co-existence can
>> really only occur if you let the designers go first. If you start with
>> wicket you will either A) tell your designers to go to h*ll daily or
>> B) spend hours and hours re-factoring to meet their 'whims'.
>> The separation of html/code is wonderful in wicket and a key reason I
>> use it and advocate for it but its no substitute for good planning and
>> a 'design first' mentality.
>> John-
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Dave B <> wrote:
>>> While my Wicket usage is very basic at the stage, one of the
>>> attractive parts is the code and logic is completely separate to the
>>> layout.  So your designers can do all the fine tuning and magic
>>> without screwing up your work.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
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