Larry, I call it the scofield midge..sorry, got the name wrong. You need to know that Don is convinced he is the first person to use his :rope dub technique. I sent him a picture of Helen Shaw using the same technique in a book I have of hers that was copyrighted 1959 and he refused to see that it was the same technique. He also says that you can't move the noodle of dubbing up and down the thread when you use the Norvise. I tried to tell him that I move it up and down all the time, and the reason I really like spin dubbing is that you DON'T have to tie the dubbing down to use it, thus avoiding the knot of tied down dubbing, an unsightly bump, with the spin dubbing. I spin the dubbing, move the tiny tail right up to the area near the hook bend and spin it down, securing it with the spin itself and making a small and even, without unsightly bump, dubbing. I'll try and take a picture of it which will give you a better close up when I get home. JOyce
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Larry Johnson <johns...@uvu.edu> wrote: > I can noodle in the rope-dub style, or spin all my materials with the tying > thread as the wire. > I made some short gnats (looked like Griffith's Gnats except the hackle was > brown. not grizzly) > My buddy was fishing on the Boulder Mts, and was the only one catching > anything. An old feller walked around to him and > asked him what he was using. My buddy gave him three or four of these > flies, and one of my cards, and they all started catching fish. > The old guy called me and asked for 4 dozen of them. The next year he > ordered 6 dozen. I met him accidentally on the upper fish creek several > summers > ago. He still had some of those flies, but said he had to stop giving them > away. > That was 1970 - 72. The fly is now the Boulder Mt. Midge. > size 12 - 16. Peacock,(two or three herls) gold tinsel, and brown hackle, > all "spun" with the working thread as the wire. > At the Sowbug I was showing how to tie it in one minute or less. > > Larry J > > >>> "Don Ordes" <f...@tribcsp.com> 11/3/2010 1:35 PM >>> > Larry, > I don't advocate that the rope-dub replaces everything. I advocate that the > rope-dub works with all dubbings and is very fast, and achieves segments > with taper in one pass, and speed, and all of the other things I list on > the > website page. If someone wants to stay with a loop or other method because > they are comfortable and practiced with it, who am I to say otherwise? > > But if someone can't afford the Nor-vise ($340+/-) and the load-em-up > retractable bobbins, they can get the same results just as fast once they > master the RD. My advocacy is that a tier can use one technique for all > dubbings, and have better control of the results with the fingertip > manipulation of the noodle. I didn't show photos yet, but I introduce many > other materials along with tinsels into the peacock rope, such as cactus > chennilles and ice-dub. I show on the DVD that once the technique is > mastered, a materials pliers can be used to speed up (not replace) the > process even more. DVD#2 will show even more techniques like this. > Syn-seal is one dubbing that is speeded up by using a material clip (it's > so > slick). But shape control is still with the fingertips on a stationary > core. > > I have a question for you. When you Nor-Vise your noodle, does the wire > twist with the peacock? A major departure of the rope-dub from other > methods is that the wire does not twist and the roped noodle can therefore > be compressed and shaped for a one-pass tie. > > I've seen tons of take-offs of the hackle-with-the-noodle approach, but > they've all been since I originally posted it on the VFB in 2001, and I had > been showing it in shows 2 years prior to that. I wouldn't bet my life on > it, of course, but I was never able to find any references to 'noodling the > hackle with the dubbing' before 2000. I watched Lefty rope peacock with > wire in 2004 in Denver, but he didn't add the hackle to the rope. > > Last thing I care to get into is a technique-war. I published the > rope-dubbing for free for over 10 years and put it on Byard's site in 2001- > all for free. I wasn't trying to 'take' anyone and everyone had a choice > and I didn't care what that was. No money was at stake. At the shows, the > extended demos took 20 minutes and covered a dozen or more flies and > sub-techniques. Viewers stated that they could never remember it all, and > so did I have a DVD. A few thought it was Polly's technique, but I showed > them in his book that it is not. So many of them, like Denny Conrad, > asked > for a DVD so they could study and practice all of the techniques at home. > > I still don't know if it was the best thing to do, but it's done. The DVD > is out and getting reviewed by the entire industry, with almost all > positive > feed-back. I've had a few un-informed web-posters say negative things > about > it, but they were promptly informed. A few complain about the price, but > they are not purchasers or rope-dubbers, so they have no concept of the > actual value of the methods on the DVD. Al Beatty reviewed it just after I > gave him one at the FFF clave in W Yellowstone. He loved it and wrote a > very positive review (so he tells me) for Fly Tyer Magazine, and wanted to > buy the DVD. It's FTM's choice when they print it, and I haven't seen it. > > I still rope-dub demo for free at the shows. Fortunately, it goes so fast > that viewers cannot retain what they see, and they still get the DVD if > they > can afford it. That's the other thing- the economy. That's why I did a > 25% > discount for the next 2 months to make it easier to buy them as gifts. > > So I say if you like your Nor-Vise better, by all means stick with it. I > just hope you've done a heads-up comparison of speed vs results vs > versatility. > > Very Best Regards, > DonO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Johnson" <johns...@uvu.edu> > To: <vfb-mail@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 12:22 PM > Subject: Re: [VFB] Rope dubbing peacock- Fly of the Week- peacock > > > Don: I know that you are a great advocate of the rope-dub technique. I > have been doing the same thing you are doing with the peacock and hackle > for > years on my Nor-Vise. I add a strip of narrow tinsel to it. I fish it > like > that, or use it as a body for a caddis or mayfly, etc. > > Larry Johnson > Springville, Utah > > >>> "Don Ordes" <f...@tribcsp.com> 11/3/2010 11:18 AM >>> > For Rope-dubbers: > > Below is just a little of what can be done with rope-dubbing peacock, > hackle, and dubbing. > > > This is a local pattern called a half-back nymph. I tied the wing-case on > and left it in a post-type position. > I roped the peacock over wire in a 50/50 bare/hackle set-up. When I > wrapped > forward, the hackle started at the > wingcase and finished at the bead. I then pulled the wing forward and tied > off. The hackling looks different > than a palmered version (see close-up below) and is tooth-proof. (See > portion way below) > > > > Compressed, dense hackle^ > > > This is a size 26 peacock fly, using the fine- but weak- iridescent green > feathers above the peacock > eye. It much stronger when roped with a strong core thread. > > > Your peacock can be furled so tight that it will furl on itself. I was > never able to get it this tight > twisting the wire with the peacock as the wire would break, as it is too > brittle to twist. > > > > Above is an assortment of approaches. Don't forget that your rope can be > compressed > to make it thicker and this bunches up the hackles, making them denser. > (photo #2) > The hackle can be introduced at any part of the fly, or on the whole fly. > > > > > This photo above demonstrates the durability of a wire-cored peacock/hackle > fly. I took a small saw and chewed off the peacock and hackle all the way > down the the core. The fly still cannot come unravelled- either the > peacock > or the hackle. Actually, I have a couple like this I use as patterns with > copper-colored wire segments showing. I do this saw-demo at all the shows. > Chuck has gotten a ton of these demo-flies to salvage the hooks. > > Go ahead and ask any questions. > > DonO > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. 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