No im not suggesting that, its up to you to decide on the right balance, a NDA would be over the top unless it was absolutely vital that nobody ever said anything 'secret' about a beta version to the outside world, or if you waited to show a closed group of people some features but make sure they couldnt ripoff the idea or blab about it excessively etc.
Anyway I dont think Im explaining some of my points very well. When I say your sending mixed messages, its because of conflicting information, thats all. This discussion about opensource, and any hard time you may get about it, is because there was a change of mind. It was your right to decide not to make it opensource, but after stating previously that it would be, its only fair to expect a little flack from it. Its just the same as if I promised version 1 of wibbletron4000 would be ready on 1st October, and then it wasnt, some people would be dissapointed. But if after promising version 1 and not delivering, I then tried to make out that it didnt matter at all, and to play it down too much, it might make things worse. And if I then tried to redefine the term 'release' to include software not actually released yet, then some git like me would come along and start ranting. Tat is an extreme example, Im not trying to paint ants closedsource decision as being of the same magnitude, just gave an over the top example to try to make the point clear. Steve of Elbows --- In [email protected], Joshua Kinberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > so are you suggesting we make people sign agreements or NDA's next > time in order to become beta testers? When people sign up o get > pre-release versions of Mac OS, I'm sure they have to do something > similar... > > These simple instructions (more like simple courtesies) were very > clear in the initial invite emails and welcome pages with Yahoo Groups > when those beta testing groups were formed. They were also reiterated > several times by myself and Jay as we were managing the beta testing > groups. > > -josh > > > On 9/8/05, Steve Watkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I would like to know if the group minds me asking tough questions and > > being a bit harsh? > > > > The primary reason I do it, apart from being socially defective in > > some way it seems, is related to the recent discussions about > > impartial media, bias, citizen journalism, accuracy, all that stuff. > > > > If we really believe in all that stuff, then its necessary to test it, > > to put any preexisting love or hate for people or products to one > > side, and to see if the reality actually matches the rhetoric. > > > > So for example I love ant to bits, and what it has done, and the > > effort and aims of those behind it. But I dont want those factors to > > make me blind to anything of the negatives that exist or may > > potentially exist. > > > > I beg you not to use the term opensource so widely. Listening to user > > feedback and being free and having great motives and doing beta tests > > is not open source. Its just not. It makes my brain recoil in horror, > > it makes a nonsense of the term, it becomes like a marketing phrase or > > empty political rhetoric. > > > > As for the situation with the betatesting, I agree with what you wrote > > there, but the control just went that bit too far for my tastes, and I > > still believe it runs contrary to talk of how open you are. If youd > > not used talk of how open ant was, maybe people would have more > > instinctively understood not to blab about the beta in public, if you > > want control you need to be unambiguous about it. > > > > Steve of Elbows > > > > --- In [email protected], Joshua Kinberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Steve, > > > > > > You ask very tough questions. This is good, but I don't really have > > > all the answers for you (or the answers you necessarily want to hear). > > > > > > I completely disagree with you on the definition of open source there. > > > Open source is not just about source code. It is a much larger > > > cultural exchange that is as much social, and political as it is > > > technical. Besides, there is nothing restricting others from building > > > their own RSS aggregator. Go ahead and do it. You don't need our > > > source code for that. > > > > > > FireANT is based on open content and open protocols. It will have an > > > open web services API that developers will be able to take advantage > > > of. We are doing our best to make this community stronger. We do a ton > > > of outreach and education. Anyone who spends even a brief time on this > > > list would know that. We do this because we believe in this spreading > > > this culture. We believe that other people's voices are important -- > > > that media should be an active conversation and not a passive > > > experience. We want people to create and distribute their own media, > > > and we work damn hard to acheive this goal. > > > > > > We also believe in FireANT. We want to make a real sustainable > > > business so that we don't have to work another day job. We want to > > > dedicate our time to serving this community and improving our product. > > > We also want our product to be free. Its not easy to make a > > > sustainable business based on free tools, but we think its worth > > > trying -- just requires a lot more creativity. > > > > > > Regarding the alpha testing process... I don't think our concerns were > > > unreasonable. We had a closed testing group, and some members were not > > > able to respect the responsibility of being a tester -- it doesn't > > > just mean you get to grab some free software, it means you are > > > agreeing to help us through the process by providing useful bug > > > reports and feedback in a somewhat controlled environment... yes, the > > > private alpha and beta testing process should is controlled by its > > > very nature. When the software is public, then you can feel free to > > > discuss publicly. Again, not an unreasonable concern on our part.... > > > sheesh this discussion is several months old too. > > > > > > -Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
