Thanks so much. Braille, to me, is reading. How can one call such an important skill dead?
Devin Prater Assistive Technology Instructor ________________________________ From: viphone@googlegroups.com on behalf of Anthony Vece <ajv...@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 9:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Theme Question: In What Ways Have Apple Products, or Their Related Third-Party Apps, Increased Your Level of Personal Independence? Hi Devon; I am 66 years old and, I am so happy that a lot of young people are using braille for today. I never want to see braille as a loss start. Keep it up. God bless Anthony Sent from my Verizon iPhone XR!!! > On May 25, 2019, at 11:40 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > My journey with Apple started in like 2011, when I got my first iPod. I was > in 9th grade, just learning about technology, and excited about all that the > iPod could do, even back then. I remember getting an iTunes gift card, and > buying books from the iBooks store, and actually read one during a weekend at > my Aunt's house. > Years after that, I got an iPhone 7, the year that the 8 and 10 came out, > because I just couldn't live with the Google Pixel anymore. Just like with > Linux, I couldn't live with the dirty implementation of what Google calls > "accessibility" on Android. So, I gave that Pixel back to Verizon, and got > the iPhone 7. > > For me, I judge an operating system accessibility on its braille support. You > know Google don't give a crap because BrailleBack isn't even *included* in > the accessibility suite in Android, you have to get it from the play store. > No Android user can justify this, except to say that some users don't need > braille and its somehow good that Google not "clutter" up their phone with > accessibility, lol. Linux has a good enough braille system, I suppose, but > like everything else regarding accessibility, it can be not even packaged for > your distribution of choice, or not enabled, or not set up correctly, or have > its system-d service disabled, or have its BRLAPI group not set up with the > one you're assigned to, and so much more. Yeah, Linux is made of so many > small parts, and its an absolute pain to get all of them working nicely > together. > > iOS, however, is just about the gold standard for braille access. Its not > perfect, of course, since you never see formatting symbols in braille, and > sometimes when you type, braille restarts itself, but my goodness for the > most part, it works well. I'm not saying Apple doesn't have to keep > improving, but Google and Linux don't give a crap, and Microsoft is still > fumbling a little with braille, but iOS 13 will be a great time for Apple to > show that they still care about their blind users, and braille users in > particular, by fixing bugs and adding features, like showing formatting if > the user wants, like italics, bold, and such when reading books and articles, > or allowing the user to set up cells which, if they're not working anymore, > should be skipped in showing braille, so that the user doesn't get unreliable > information. Yes, both of these have been suggested to Apple by me. > > So, I've gone through just about all operating systems. Apple is ruggid and > reliable, but doesn't change much. Microsoft is shiny & interesting, but can > be rather flimsy sometimes. Linux is large and hard to wield, and easy to > break. Android is easily customized, but its looseness also allows in > malware. Chromebook doesn't really do much, but that's great for education, > and ironically, its braille support is what Android should have, when you > plug in a braille display, Chromevox automatically comes on, if its not > already on, and drives the display. But like every other screen reader, for > some reason, it doesn't show formatting! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 25, 2019, at 9:18 PM, Mary Jo Partyka <choir...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Since I started receiving Apple products in 2011, I have become more >> independent and knowledgeable about what they do. I use my phone with the >> screen only most of the time and like the idea of being able to text to >> people like everyone else. I enjoy exploring apps and the calendar is a >> godsend because my events appear on my phone and my computer at the same >> time. I have broadened my music repertoire with the Apple music service and >> like the idea that news items are at our disposal the same time other people >> receive them. Also trying to acquaint myself with apps that use GPS. >> >> >> Mary Jo Partyka >> choir...@gmail.com >> >> >>> On May 25, 2019, at 8:28 PM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Gordon, >>> >>> While I appreciate your sentiment, because I do not want your post to >>> discourage others from contributing to this thread, I will offer a brief >>> rebuttal to your comments. >>> >>> First, my question was not meant to suggest that the visually impaired did >>> not have accessible options prior to the modern version of iOS, Mac OS, etc. >>> >>> Consider, Even though mankind had harnessed the power of fire, thousands of >>> years ago, few would argue that the invention of modern matches or a >>> handheld lighter did not increase personal independence. >>> >>> Second, in my opinion, the learning curve of the legacy OS systems was >>> tremendously more difficult to master than modern access technology. >>> >>> Third, many of the members in our community did not use any of the old >>> legacy technology so arguing their existence, in my opinion, is pointless >>> as my question was meant to share our Apple product experiences; not to >>> compare Apple products to other technologies, modern or otherwise. >>> >>> Finally, I want to reiterate that I am only posting this rebuttal because I >>> want everyone to continue to contribute to this thread and not to be, in >>> anyway, discouraged by Gordon's comments. I am not posting this in order to >>> engage in a debate. >>> >>> I hope that more of you will contribute to this thread, keeping with its >>> intended purpose which is to simply share how Apple products have increased >>> your personal independence. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>> Of Gordan Radic >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2019 3:43 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: Theme Question: In What Ways Have Apple Products, or Their >>> Related Third-Party Apps, Increased Your Level of Personal Independence? >>> >>> Hi to all! >>> >>> I hope i won't be a party breaker but I read some emails on the subjectt >>> and I can't agree with most mentioned. >>> >>> Just to refresh your memory, before iPhone got Voice Over there was a tiny >>> little thing called Symbian, it was used on the Nokia smartphones and there >>> were two screen readers called Talks and Mobile Speak. >>> >>> So, basic things such as calling, keeping up with the contacts, messaging, >>> mailing, calendar, alarms, reading caller ID and even web browsing was >>> available to the blind community times before first iOS with voice over. >>> >>> There wee also music and book players on those old Nokia phones. There were >>> also social media apps and some other things but they weren't accessible >>> with screen readers but, it's not Nokia or Symbian fault, it's the >>> developers thing. We hame the same problems on iOS acasionally. >>> >>> Things we couldn't do on the phone we could do on our PCs. I don't know >>> when exactly Mac got usable Voice Over support but Jaws, Window Eyes, Hal >>> and NVDA are on Windows based PCs for ages. Almost everything mentioned in >>> previous mails was possible for us allthe time and if you ask me, even more >>> than on the iProducts. With all dued respect, I still regularly use my >>> Windows PC for tones of tasks I can do on my phone. >>> >>> So, I can't say that iOS and iDevices in general are not great, they really >>> are but we can't say we didn't live before them. Apple took us to the next >>> level with mobility because we don't need to carry our laptops or whatever >>> with us and we can do things on our iPhones on the go but we were able to >>> do things before iOS with Voice over. >>> >>> >>> S poštovanjem >>> >>> Gordan Radić >>> >>> 25.05.2019 u 19:49, Paul and Paula Jordan je napisao/la: >>>> I was the one who swore I didn't want an IPhone no matter what. That was >>>> when the 4S had just come out. I have had a 7 for the last 2-1/2 years so >>>> that in itself says something. Hard to narrow down to 5 things even with >>>> some honorable mentions, but I'll give it a try. In no particular order: >>>> >>>> 1. the ability to do some things that would otherwise require sighted >>>> help: BE MY EYES, and VOICE DREAM SCANNER to name just two. >>>> 2. The ability to send text messages to keep in touch with others when I'm >>>> not sure they are able to take a phone call, or when I just want to leave >>>> a brief message. >>>> 3. Ability to schedule appointments on a calendar immediately. >>>> 4. Keeping track of where I am either walking or riding a bus or >>>> paratransit: BLIND SQUARE OR NEARBY EXPLORER. >>>> 5. Playing games on my phone just for fun. >>>> >>>> Honorable mentions: 1. Shopping with the SHIPT app and perusing websites >>>> like Chewy at my leisure. >>>> 2. Watching TV using the spectrum app even when I don't have a TV right >>>> where I am whether outside or in a different room from the set. >>>> 3. Quickly finding business phone numbers or addresses. >>>> 4. Using UBER instead of a taxi since they are quicker, I can contact the >>>> driver directly whether than a dispatcher, and they are often cheaper. >>>> God bless! >>>> >>>> I'm sure there are more, but that's a good start. Paula and Garçon >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >>>> Behalf Of M. Taylor >>>> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 1:49 PM >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Theme Question: In What Ways Have Apple Products, or Their >>>> Related Third-Party Apps, Increased Your Level of Personal Independence? >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> What are the 5 most significant ways that iOS, Watch OS, Mac OS, TV OS >>>> and/or any of their third-party apps increased your level of personal >>>> independence. >>>> >>>> As for me:. >>>> >>>> 1. >>>> The ability to manage and pay my bills via all of the financial apps such >>>> as Capital One, Bank of America, Apple Pay, etc. >>>> >>>> 2. >>>> The ability to navigate with infinitely more confidence with apps like >>>> Seeing Eye GPS Xt, Apple Maps, Uber, Nearby Explorer, etc. >>>> >>>> 3. >>>> The ability to read printed documents and acquire product information, on >>>> the fly, with apps such as K.N.F.B. Reader, Money Reader, the native iOS >>>> camera app, Seeing A.I., etc. >>>> >>>> 4. >>>> The ability to quickly and easily access social media and news with apps >>>> such as Twitter, the native Apple News app, NFB Newsline, Lire Full Text >>>> RSS news reader, Good Reads, Yelp, You Tube, etc. >>>> >>>> 5. >>>> The ability to quickly and easily access books with apps such as BARD >>>> Mobile, Kindle, Apple Books, and of course, my beloved Over Drive. >>>> >>>> Honorable Memtions: >>>> 1. >>>> TV Guide Mobile. >>>> >>>> 2. >>>> CA Lottery app. >>>> >>>> 3. >>>> The Parcel Track package tracking app. >>>> >>>> 4. >>>> Digit Eyes Bar Code reader. >>>> >>>> 5. >>>> The My Chart medical App. >>>> >>>> I look forward to all of your replies, >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/000301d51258%24f7783550%24e6689ff0%24%40edu. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/27b1caa5-5e08-bdb7-6404-7fd7f4b4a6dc%40gmail.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/000001d51359%24fd111570%24f7334050%24%40edu. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/E7A67B35-F73B-4CBB-A29D-E941AC1956F8%40gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/F780E00A-06E6-4875-9D0C-A5AE1187DB8D%40gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/6E6D3DF5-2542-4402-976B-A0D19EBD5EBD%40gmail.com. 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