On May 26, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks so much. Braille, to me, is reading. How can one call such an
important skill dead?
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor
From: viphone@googlegroups.com on behalf of Anthony Vece
<ajv...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 9:34 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Theme Question: In What Ways Have Apple Products, or
Their Related Third-Party Apps, Increased Your Level of Personal
Independence?
Hi Devon;
I am 66 years old and, I am so happy that a lot of young people are
using braille for today.
I never want to see braille as a loss start.
Keep it up.
God bless
Anthony
Sent from my Verizon iPhone XR!!!
> On May 25, 2019, at 11:40 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> My journey with Apple started in like 2011, when I got my first
> iPod. I was in 9th grade, just learning about technology, and
> excited about all that the iPod could do, even back then. I
> remember getting an iTunes gift card, and buying books from the
> iBooks store, and actually read one during a weekend at my Aunt's
> house.
> Years after that, I got an iPhone 7, the year that the 8 and 10
> came out, because I just couldn't live with the Google Pixel
> anymore. Just like with Linux, I couldn't live with the dirty
> implementation of what Google calls "accessibility" on Android. So,
> I gave that Pixel back to Verizon, and got the iPhone 7.
>
> For me, I judge an operating system accessibility on its braille
> support. You know Google don't give a crap because BrailleBack
> isn't even *included* in the accessibility suite in Android, you
> have to get it from the play store. No Android user can justify
> this, except to say that some users don't need braille and its
> somehow good that Google not "clutter" up their phone with
> accessibility, lol. Linux has a good enough braille system, I
> suppose, but like everything else regarding accessibility, it can
> be not even packaged for your distribution of choice, or not
> enabled, or not set up correctly, or have its system-d service
> disabled, or have its BRLAPI group not set up with the one you're
> assigned to, and so much more. Yeah, Linux is made of so many small
> parts, and its an absolute pain to get all of them working nicely
> together.
>
> iOS, however, is just about the gold standard for braille access.
> Its not perfect, of course, since you never see formatting symbols
> in braille, and sometimes when you type, braille restarts itself,
> but my goodness for the most part, it works well. I'm not saying
> Apple doesn't have to keep improving, but Google and Linux don't
> give a crap, and Microsoft is still fumbling a little with braille,
> but iOS 13 will be a great time for Apple to show that they still
> care about their blind users, and braille users in particular, by
> fixing bugs and adding features, like showing formatting if the
> user wants, like italics, bold, and such when reading books and
> articles, or allowing the user to set up cells which, if they're
> not working anymore, should be skipped in showing braille, so that the
> user doesn't get unreliable information.
> Yes, both of these have been suggested to Apple by me.
>
> So, I've gone through just about all operating systems. Apple is
> ruggid and reliable, but doesn't change much. Microsoft is shiny &
> interesting, but can be rather flimsy sometimes. Linux is large and
> hard to wield, and easy to break. Android is easily customized, but
> its looseness also allows in malware. Chromebook doesn't really do
> much, but that's great for education, and ironically, its braille
> support is what Android should have, when you plug in a braille
> display, Chromevox automatically comes on, if its not already on,
> and drives the display. But like every other screen reader, for some
> reason, it doesn't show formatting!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 25, 2019, at 9:18 PM, Mary Jo Partyka <choir...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Since I started receiving Apple products in 2011, I have become
>> more independent and knowledgeable about what they do. I use my
>> phone with the screen only most of the time and like the idea of
>> being able to text to people like everyone else. I enjoy exploring
>> apps and the calendar is a godsend because my events appear on my
>> phone and my computer at the same time. I have broadened my music
>> repertoire with the Apple music service and like the idea that
>> news items are at our disposal the same time other people receive
>> them. Also trying to acquaint myself with apps that use GPS.
>>
>>
>> Mary Jo Partyka
>> choir...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>> On May 25, 2019, at 8:28 PM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Gordon,
>>>
>>> While I appreciate your sentiment, because I do not want your
>>> post to discourage others from contributing to this thread, I
>>> will offer a brief rebuttal to your comments.
>>>
>>> First, my question was not meant to suggest that the visually
>>> impaired did not have accessible options prior to the modern
>>> version of iOS, Mac OS, etc.
>>>
>>> Consider, Even though mankind had harnessed the power of fire,
>>> thousands of years ago, few would argue that the invention of
>>> modern matches or a handheld lighter did not increase personal
>>> independence.
>>>
>>>
>>> Second, in my opinion, the learning curve of the legacy OS
>>> systems was tremendously more difficult to master than modern access
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> Third, many of the members in our community did not use any of
>>> the old legacy technology so arguing their existence, in my
>>> opinion, is pointless as my question was meant to share our Apple
>>> product experiences; not to compare Apple products to other
>>> technologies, modern or otherwise.
>>>
>>> Finally, I want to reiterate that I am only posting this rebuttal
>>> because I want everyone to continue to contribute to this thread
>>> and not to be, in anyway, discouraged by Gordon's comments. I am
>>> not posting this in order to engage in a debate.
>>>
>>> I hope that more of you will contribute to this thread, keeping
>>> with its intended purpose which is to simply share how Apple
>>> products have increased your personal independence.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Gordan Radic
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2019 3:43 PM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Theme Question: In What Ways Have Apple Products, or
>>> Their Related Third-Party Apps, Increased Your Level of Personal
>>> Independence?
>>>
>>> Hi to all!
>>>
>>> I hope i won't be a party breaker but I read some emails on the
>>> subjectt and I can't agree with most mentioned.
>>>
>>> Just to refresh your memory, before iPhone got Voice Over there
>>> was a tiny little thing called Symbian, it was used on the Nokia
>>> smartphones and there were two screen readers called Talks and
>>> Mobile
>>> Speak.
>>>
>>> So, basic things such as calling, keeping up with the contacts,
>>> messaging, mailing, calendar, alarms, reading caller ID and even
>>> web browsing was available to the blind community times before
>>> first iOS with voice over.
>>>
>>> There wee also music and book players on those old Nokia phones.
>>> There were also social media apps and some other things but they
>>> weren't accessible with screen readers but, it's not Nokia or
>>> Symbian fault, it's the developers thing. We hame the same
>>> problems on iOS acasionally.
>>>
>>> Things we couldn't do on the phone we could do on our PCs. I
>>> don't know when exactly Mac got usable Voice Over support but
>>> Jaws, Window Eyes, Hal and NVDA are on Windows based PCs for
>>> ages. Almost everything mentioned in previous mails was possible
>>> for us allthe time and if you ask me, even more than on the
>>> iProducts. With all dued respect, I still regularly use my
>>> Windows PC for tones of tasks I can do on my phone.
>>>
>>> So, I can't say that iOS and iDevices in general are not great,
>>> they really are but we can't say we didn't live before them.
>>> Apple took us to the next level with mobility because we don't
>>> need to carry our laptops or whatever with us and we can do
>>> things on our iPhones on the go but we were able to do things before
>>> iOS with Voice over.
>>>
>>>
>>> S poštovanjem
>>>
>>> Gordan Radić
>>>
>>> 25.05.2019 u 19:49, Paul and Paula Jordan je napisao/la:
>>>> I was the one who swore I didn't want an IPhone no matter what.
>>>> That was when the 4S had just come out. I have had a 7 for the
>>>> last 2-1/2 years so that in itself says something. Hard to
>>>> narrow down to 5 things even with some honorable mentions, but
>>>> I'll give it a try. In no particular order:
>>>>
>>>> 1. the ability to do some things that would otherwise require
>>>> sighted
>>>> help: BE MY EYES, and VOICE DREAM SCANNER to name just two.
>>>> 2. The ability to send text messages to keep in touch with
>>>> others when I'm not sure they are able to take a phone call, or
>>>> when I just want to leave a brief message.
>>>> 3. Ability to schedule appointments on a calendar immediately.
>>>> 4. Keeping track of where I am either walking or riding a bus or
>>>> paratransit: BLIND SQUARE OR NEARBY EXPLORER.
>>>> 5. Playing games on my phone just for fun.
>>>>
>>>> Honorable mentions: 1. Shopping with the SHIPT app and perusing
>>>> websites like Chewy at my leisure.
>>>> 2. Watching TV using the spectrum app even when I don't have a
>>>> TV right where I am whether outside or in a different room from the
>>>> set.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Quickly finding business phone numbers or addresses.
>>>> 4. Using UBER instead of a taxi since they are quicker, I can
>>>> contact the driver directly whether than a dispatcher, and they
>>>> are often cheaper.
>>>> God bless!
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there are more, but that's a good start. Paula and
>>>> Garçon -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of M. Taylor
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 1:49 PM
>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Theme Question: In What Ways Have Apple Products, or
>>>> Their Related Third-Party Apps, Increased Your Level of Personal
>>>> Independence?
>>>>
>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> What are the 5 most significant ways that iOS, Watch OS, Mac OS,
>>>> TV OS and/or any of their third-party apps increased your level
>>>> of personal independence.
>>>>
>>>> As for me:.
>>>>
>>>> 1.
>>>> The ability to manage and pay my bills via all of the financial
>>>> apps such as Capital One, Bank of America, Apple Pay, etc.
>>>>
>>>> 2.
>>>> The ability to navigate with infinitely more confidence with
>>>> apps like Seeing Eye GPS Xt, Apple Maps, Uber, Nearby Explorer,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> 3.
>>>> The ability to read printed documents and acquire product
>>>> information, on the fly, with apps such as K.N.F.B. Reader,
>>>> Money Reader, the native iOS camera app, Seeing A.I., etc.
>>>>
>>>> 4.
>>>> The ability to quickly and easily access social media and news
>>>> with apps such as Twitter, the native Apple News app, NFB
>>>> Newsline, Lire Full Text RSS news reader, Good Reads, Yelp, You
>>>> Tube, etc.
>>>>
>>>> 5.
>>>> The ability to quickly and easily access books with apps such as
>>>> BARD Mobile, Kindle, Apple Books, and of course, my beloved Over
>>>> Drive.
>>>>
>>>> Honorable Memtions:
>>>> 1.
>>>> TV Guide Mobile.
>>>>
>>>> 2.
>>>> CA Lottery app.
>>>>
>>>> 3.
>>>> The Parcel Track package tracking app.
>>>>
>>>> 4.
>>>> Digit Eyes Bar Code reader.
>>>>
>>>> 5.
>>>> The My Chart medical App.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to all of your replies,
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
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