I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there is just too much subjective criteria at play. 1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is accessible?
2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%? 90? 100%? 3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible, then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, while the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in time for that single $3 refund. I've found that its much easier to let it go. :) 4. There are some 500,000 apps in the Apps store, who at Apple is going to test all of those apps for accessibility? This means Apple will need to train a large team of individuals to determine what is accessible and what is not or what is semi-accessible and what is not. All this means time, effort, and tons of costs. 5. What exactly is meant by "Accessibility?" Apple will absolutely have to define and address this question before taking any first steps to achieve it. There are still some holes in the ADA, and if the 600+ house and senate members including the president had a tough time defining "reasonable accommodations," then it is likely a business will not want to get anywhere near this issue unless forced to do so. 6. In Windows 8, Microsoft has tried this accessibility tag in their Windows store and many developers have chosen to list their apps as accessible even though these aps cannot be used by a blind individual. Remember, accessibility means lots more than just accessible to the blind. Again, we're back to how will Apple implement such a system? Will they leave it in the hands of the developer, or will they use their own team which accepts or rejects submitted apps. If they do it in-house, this means training either all of their employs or this means training a select group; if so, this will have to be quite a large group. Don't get me wrong, I think Apple should start somewhere, but it will be difficult to actually develop such a system rather than many of us making demands that have not been really thought out. :) I guess its like asking, why not just build a super highway across the Atlantic from the US to Asia since there is tons of area to build? Extreme example? Yes, but I meant it to be so to bring home my points regarding how to define, describe, and implement accessibility. Heck, there are still some debating how one accurately describes a screen reader. Guys, I want the same thing you do, but if it is going to be done, it might as well be done right and done right the first time, so let's not make hasty demands as we might end up getting what we want--as defined by a single individual at Apple. Just some spur of the moment thoughts. Joseph ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman Singer" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund Hi, alan. You say > what happens when a sighted person gets an app and they think it doesn't > meet their needs. With respect, that depends on whether the description accurately told the sighted user what the application would do. If the textual description and the screenshots the app store presented gave an accurate description of the app, then the user has nothing to complain of. If the description was inaccurate, then the user should get a refund. THe problem, of course, for the blind user is that the description may or may not be true. The app may say it can do X, and may in fact do X for a sighted user but not for a user of VO. For the VO user, the description is simply false unless it says that VO will not work with the app. It seems plain that the VO user is entitled to an accurate description, one which says whether the app will actually do what it says it will. Failing that, the user is entitled to try the product to see if the description is false. Failing even that, the user is entitled to a refund if the description turns out to be nonsense. Apple has chosen not to allow the first or second options, it seems only reasonable, though not fully satisfactory, for them to allow the third. Aman dealer of what it 2013-08-03, at 1:08 PM, "Alan Paganelli" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All, > > My concern here is this. So what happens when a sighted person gets an > app and they think it doesn't meet their needs. Do they get a refund? > I'd guess not. This sounds to me to much like pulling out the blind card. > What I'm saying here is, if there is a satisfaction guaranteed or your > money back policy in place then that's one thing but just because it > doesn't work well with voice over may not fly. > ------- > > Regards, > > Alan > > Go Chicago Bears in 2013! > > Teenagers; Tired of being harassed by your stupid parents? Act now!!!!! > Move out. Get a job. Pay your bills wile you still know everything. > > Please click on: > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ > There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played > on > the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on > my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sieghard Weitzel > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 1:49 AM > Subject: RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app > refund > > Hi Cara, > > I agree and think that unless Apple comes up with a better way to do this > they should be willing to give Voiceover users a refund without the > hassle. I must say, however, that I really like that 15 minute return > policy Google apparently offers, but of course trying to get Apple to do > something like that is not just a completely different ball game, it’s a > different sport! > > If Apple was really concerned that this would be abused, they could > request proof that somebody is actually visually impaired or they could > limit refunds to a certain number per year. I am very sure that given > their computers they could easily track this on somebody’s Apple Id. > > If you are getting involved in this feel free to use my below messages as > an example, I am pasting the message I sent without the purchase details, > i.e. order number and all that, as well as the response I received. > It was obvious that the person who responded somehow seemed to understand > the situation, but on another level she apparently didn’t. She summarized > my request by saying I “inadvertently “ purchased some apps which of > course is not at all the case and not what I said. > Here is my initial message and her reply which makes me think she really > didn’t get it despite the fact that she said it was an “appropriate > exception” and they would refund me the money which still has not > happened: > > From: Sieghard Weitzel [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 9:04 AM > To: '[email protected]' > Subject: Voiceover inaccessible apps > > Hello, > > My name is Sieghard Weitzel. I recently purchased several apps for > tracking packages in order to find out which one offered the best > features. I tried a couple more, but they had free Lite versions which > allowed me to try them before buying the full version. > > I am blind and have been an iPhone/Voiceover user for almost 4 years and > unfortunately I found that two of the paid and 2 of the free/Lite apps > have accessibility issues and I was not able to use them with Voiceover. I > wrote to the developers, but have not received any reply as to whether > they might consider making improvements so the apps would work with > Voiceover. I used iTunes credit to pay for the paid apps and was wondering > if it was possible to receive a refund since I have already deleted the > apps from my phone. > > -----Original Message----- > From: iTunes Store [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 4:50 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Voiceover inaccessible apps; Follow-up: 280679929 > > Dear Sieghard, > > Greetings from iTunes Store Customer Support. My name is Alishia and I am > happy to assist you today. > > I understand that you inadvertently purchased some apps from the App Store > and you would like to receive a refund for the purchase. I know how > important it is to have the issue resolved. I assure you of assistance. > > Sieghard, after reviewing the circumstances of your case, we determined > that issuing you a refund for the purchase of "Apps" is an appropriate > exception to the iTunes Store Terms and Conditions, which state that all > sales are final. > > You will see 6.70 CAD added to your store credit balance within 48 hours. > You may need to sign out of the iTunes Store and then sign back in before > you see the credit in your account. > > The iTunes Store provides a warning message that asks if you are sure that > you want to buy an item. This warning can be turned off. If you would like > to make sure that this warning is on, you can reset the warnings in the > iTunes Store by following the instructions in this article: > > Resetting iTunes Store warnings > http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1734 > > Additionally, you can make modifications on certain devices that will > prevent them from making purchases: > > iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch: Understanding Restrictions > http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4213 > > I hope the information provided would resolve your issue. > > Sieghard, if you have any additional questions, please let me know and I > will be happy to assist you further. Thank you for being a valued member > of iTunes family. > > Have a nice day! > > Sincerely, > > Alishia > iTunes Store Customer Support > http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/ww/ > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. > > Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. > > Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > > Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing > [email protected]. > > Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing > [email protected]. > > More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. > > Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. > > Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > > Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing > [email protected]. > > Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing > [email protected]. > > More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing [email protected]. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing [email protected]. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
