I believe Aman has made great points. Furthermore, it is not likely Apple
will successfully achieve a VoiceOver ratings system any time soon as there
is just too much subjective criteria at play.
1. Who is going to be the person at Apple who has determined that an app is
accessible?
2. What constitutes accessibility? Accessing 60% of an apps features? 70%?
90? 100%?
3. If Apple allows the developer to determine that their app is accessible,
then you might end up in tons of wasted customer service time in that the
blind customer spending hours and days of their and Apple's time trying to
convince Apple that the app developer lied because of X feature not being
accessible. I'm having a tough time accepting that someone would take
countless hours and even days of their time for $1 or $3. In the end, while
the person might get a refund, they will have probably spent some $100 in
time for that single $3 refund. I've found that its much easier to let it
go. :)
4. There are some 500,000 apps in the Apps store, who at Apple is going to
test all of those apps for accessibility? This means Apple will need to
train a large team of individuals to determine what is accessible and what
is not or what is semi-accessible and what is not. All this means time,
effort, and tons of costs.
5. What exactly is meant by "Accessibility?" Apple will absolutely have to
define and address this question before taking any first steps to achieve
it. There are still some holes in the ADA, and if the 600+ house and senate
members including the president had a tough time defining "reasonable
accommodations," then it is likely a business will not want to get anywhere
near this issue unless forced to do so.
6. In Windows 8, Microsoft has tried this accessibility tag in their Windows
store and many developers have chosen to list their apps as accessible even
though these aps cannot be used by a blind individual. Remember,
accessibility means lots more than just accessible to the blind. Again,
we're back to how will Apple implement such a system? Will they leave it in
the hands of the developer, or will they use their own team which accepts or
rejects submitted apps. If they do it in-house, this means training either
all of their employs or this means training a select group; if so, this will
have to be quite a large group.
Don't get me wrong, I think Apple should start somewhere, but it will be
difficult to actually develop such a system rather than many of us making
demands that have not been really thought out. :) I guess its like asking,
why not just build a super highway across the Atlantic from the US to Asia
since there is tons of area to build? Extreme example? Yes, but I meant it
to be so to bring home my points regarding how to define, describe, and
implement accessibility. Heck, there are still some debating how one
accurately describes a screen reader.
Guys, I want the same thing you do, but if it is going to be done, it might
as well be done right and done right the first time, so let's not make hasty
demands as we might end up getting what we want--as defined by a single
individual at Apple.
Just some spur of the moment thoughts.
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aman Singer" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund
Hi, alan.
You say
what happens when a sighted person gets an app and they think it doesn't
meet their needs.
With respect, that depends on whether the description accurately told the
sighted user what the application would do. If the textual description and
the screenshots the app store presented gave an accurate description of the
app, then the user has nothing to complain of. If the description was
inaccurate, then the user should get a refund. THe problem, of course, for
the blind user is that the description may or may not be true. The app may
say it can do X, and may in fact do X for a sighted user but not for a user
of VO. For the VO user, the description is simply false unless it says that
VO will not work with the app. It seems plain that the VO user is entitled
to an accurate description, one which says whether the app will actually do
what it says it will. Failing that, the user is entitled to try the product
to see if the description is false. Failing even that, the user is entitled
to a refund if the description turns out to be nonsense. Apple has chosen
not to allow the first or second options, it seems only reasonable, though
not fully satisfactory, for them to allow the third.
Aman
dealer of what it 2013-08-03, at 1:08 PM, "Alan Paganelli"
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi All,
My concern here is this. So what happens when a sighted person gets an
app and they think it doesn't meet their needs. Do they get a refund?
I'd guess not. This sounds to me to much like pulling out the blind card.
What I'm saying here is, if there is a satisfaction guaranteed or your
money back policy in place then that's one thing but just because it
doesn't work well with voice over may not fly.
-------
Regards,
Alan
Go Chicago Bears in 2013!
Teenagers; Tired of being harassed by your stupid parents? Act now!!!!!
Move out. Get a job. Pay your bills wile you still know everything.
Please click on:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/
There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played
on
the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on
my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening!
----- Original Message -----
From: Sieghard Weitzel
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app
refund
Hi Cara,
I agree and think that unless Apple comes up with a better way to do this
they should be willing to give Voiceover users a refund without the
hassle. I must say, however, that I really like that 15 minute return
policy Google apparently offers, but of course trying to get Apple to do
something like that is not just a completely different ball game, it’s a
different sport!
If Apple was really concerned that this would be abused, they could
request proof that somebody is actually visually impaired or they could
limit refunds to a certain number per year. I am very sure that given
their computers they could easily track this on somebody’s Apple Id.
If you are getting involved in this feel free to use my below messages as
an example, I am pasting the message I sent without the purchase details,
i.e. order number and all that, as well as the response I received.
It was obvious that the person who responded somehow seemed to understand
the situation, but on another level she apparently didn’t. She summarized
my request by saying I “inadvertently “ purchased some apps which of
course is not at all the case and not what I said.
Here is my initial message and her reply which makes me think she really
didn’t get it despite the fact that she said it was an “appropriate
exception” and they would refund me the money which still has not
happened:
From: Sieghard Weitzel [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 9:04 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Voiceover inaccessible apps
Hello,
My name is Sieghard Weitzel. I recently purchased several apps for
tracking packages in order to find out which one offered the best
features. I tried a couple more, but they had free Lite versions which
allowed me to try them before buying the full version.
I am blind and have been an iPhone/Voiceover user for almost 4 years and
unfortunately I found that two of the paid and 2 of the free/Lite apps
have accessibility issues and I was not able to use them with Voiceover. I
wrote to the developers, but have not received any reply as to whether
they might consider making improvements so the apps would work with
Voiceover. I used iTunes credit to pay for the paid apps and was wondering
if it was possible to receive a refund since I have already deleted the
apps from my phone.
-----Original Message-----
From: iTunes Store [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 4:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Voiceover inaccessible apps; Follow-up: 280679929
Dear Sieghard,
Greetings from iTunes Store Customer Support. My name is Alishia and I am
happy to assist you today.
I understand that you inadvertently purchased some apps from the App Store
and you would like to receive a refund for the purchase. I know how
important it is to have the issue resolved. I assure you of assistance.
Sieghard, after reviewing the circumstances of your case, we determined
that issuing you a refund for the purchase of "Apps" is an appropriate
exception to the iTunes Store Terms and Conditions, which state that all
sales are final.
You will see 6.70 CAD added to your store credit balance within 48 hours.
You may need to sign out of the iTunes Store and then sign back in before
you see the credit in your account.
The iTunes Store provides a warning message that asks if you are sure that
you want to buy an item. This warning can be turned off. If you would like
to make sure that this warning is on, you can reset the warnings in the
iTunes Store by following the instructions in this article:
Resetting iTunes Store warnings
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1734
Additionally, you can make modifications on certain devices that will
prevent them from making purchases:
iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch: Understanding Restrictions
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4213
I hope the information provided would resolve your issue.
Sieghard, if you have any additional questions, please let me know and I
will be happy to assist you further. Thank you for being a valued member
of iTunes family.
Have a nice day!
Sincerely,
Alishia
iTunes Store Customer Support
http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/ww/
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