In the world aptly described where, science progresses funeral by funeral, this was an observation about the naysayers, not the innovators. The rare innovator and their innovations are lost funeral by funeral and there is no tally of the numbers and importance of the losses inflicted upon this world by the countless pissant not puissant naysayers. The baby boom generation educational system history will show became little more than pimped professorial puppy mills. There parents could purchase for their offspring yet another most expensive and pretentious 'sticker' and the world became overwhelmed with lost science puppies. The puppies with no outlet for said training have in most cases moved on to normal lives. Sadly more than a few have become armchair cranks, malcontents, critics - collectively trolls. The internet has proven to be an almost perfect puddle for said failing foolish puppies to troll, splash, and piddle in. On top of this anonymous posting, the perfect prescription for 'anti-social media' has removed the last semblance of humanity in science as the plentiful puppies proceed into prognosticating grumpy old dogs fouling the pathways of science that no one cleans up after. What separates real scientists from the puppies is time out of the armchair at the lab bench, and NO, 'theory' is not synonymous with experiment.
From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com [mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 7:10 AM To: ROGER ANDERTON <r.j.ander...@btinternet.com>; email@example.com; c...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Science does sometimes reject valid discoveries Roger- I agree with your timely addition regarding "science" excluding different thinking. I would note that Hagelstein's editorial cited below uses the term "science community" instead of your term "science" to designate the social entity which excludes different thinking. The following from Hagelstein's editorial in which he discusses the fields of nuclear and condensed matter physics is pertinent to this issue: "The current view within the scientific community is that these fields have things right, and if that is not reflected in measurements in the lab, then the problem is with those doing the experiments. Such a view prevailed in 1989, but now nearly a quarter century later, the situation in cold fusion labs is much clearer. There is excess heat, which can be a very big effect; it is reproducible in some labs; there are not commensurate energetic products; there are many replications; and there are other anomalies as well. Condensed matter physics and nuclear physics together are not sufficiently robust to account for these anomalies. No defense of these fields is required, since if some aspect of the associated theories is incomplete or can be broken, we would very much like to break it, so that we can focus on developing new theory that is more closely matched to experiment." >From my perspective Hagelstein is too soft on the establishment's "science community." The Corporate, University, Government Complex, driven by financial gains , should be fingered as the problem Institution. Unfortunately schools of higher learning are part of this nightmare IMHO as Hagelstein suggests. They at the mercy of the government funding/research grants scheme to control thought in many areas and the production of real data in the detail necessary to fully understand the natural laws or nature. Hagelstein concludes his editorial with the following: "Excess heat in the Fleischmann- Pons experiment is a real effect. There are big implications for science, and for society. Without resources science in this area will not advance. With the continued destruction of the careers of those who venture to work in the area, progress will be slow, and there will be no continuity of effort." I think Hagelstein is wrong in avoiding recognizing the saving grace afforded by the likes of Mills, Rossi and others around the world to exist and function on meager funding, producing real controlled excess heat via LENR without understanding the detailed science or fundamental natural laws. The control/power hungry "science community" will eat crow in my optimistic humble opinion (IMOHO). Bob Cook From: ROGER ANDERTON <mailto:r.j.ander...@btinternet.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:55 AM To: firstname.lastname@example.org <mailto:email@example.com> ; c...@googlegroups.com <mailto:c...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Science does sometimes reject valid discoveries >There are countless examples of "science" excluding different thinking. This is what prompted Max Planck to write that progress in science occurs "funeral by funeral." He explained: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." but the "new generation" is taught dogma; textbooks are locked into teaching things that are wrong but refuse to be corrected for instance: certain things should be mentioned but are not mentioned to the "new generation" allowing them to live in ignorance: John S. Bell <https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_S._Bell> , "On the impossible pilot wave". Foundations of Physics 12 (1982) notes: "But why then had Born not told me of this 'pilot wave'? If only to point out what was wrong with it? Why did von Neumann not consider it? More extraordinarily, why did people go on producing 'impossibility' proofs, after 1952, and as recently as 1978? When even Pauli, Rosenfeld, and Heisenberg, could produce no more devastating criticism of Bohm's version than to brand it as 'metaphysical' and 'ideological'? Why is the pilot wave picture ignored in text books? Should it not be taught, not as the only way, but as an antidote to the prevailing complacency? To show that vagueness, subjectivity, and indeterminism, are not forced on us by experimental facts, but by deliberate theoretical choice?" https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/De_Broglie%E2%80%93Bohm_theory On Wednesday, 24 January 2018, 22:49, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com <mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com> > wrote: A trusting soul over at lenr-forum.com <http://lenr-forum.com/> wrote that science does not exclude different thinking, meaning it does not reject valid ideas: Seriously, look over those accomplishments and tell me science excludes different thinking. With some example such as: http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/12-most-important-science-trends-30-yea rs We have often discussed this issue here. There is no need to reiterate the whole issue but let me quote my response. If you have not read Hagelstein's essay linked to below, you should. There are countless examples of "science" excluding different thinking. This is what prompted Max Planck to write that progress in science occurs "funeral by funeral." He explained: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." I have mentioned famous examples of rejection. They include things like the airplane, the laser and the MRI. I put the word science in quotes above because it is not science that excludes so much as individual scientists who do. They do this because rejecting novelty is human nature, and scientists are ordinary people with such foibles despite their training. See Peter Hagelstein's essay here, in the section, "Science as an imperfect human endeavor:" http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinontheoryan.pdf Many scientists not very good at science, just as many programmers write spaghetti code, and many surgeons kill their patients. A surprising number of scientists reject the scientific method, such as the late John Huizenga, who boldly asserted that when an experiments conflicts with theory, the experiment must be wrong, even when he could not point to any reason. One of the absurd claims made with regard to this notion is that science never makes mistakes; that in the end it always gets the right answer and it never rejects a true finding, so no valuable discovery is ever lost. Since many claims have been lost and then rediscovered decades later this is obviously incorrect. More to the point, this claim is not falsifiable. If a true discovery is lost to history we would not know about it. Because it is lost. The logic of this resembles the old joke about the teacher who says, "everyone who is absent today please raise your hand." In other technical disciplines such as programming, people forget important techniques all the time. The notion that science does not make mistakes is pernicious. It is dangerous. Imagine the chaos and destruction that would ensue if people went around thinking: "doctors never make mistakes" or "bank computer programmers never make mistakes" or "airplane mechanics never make mistakes." - Jed