Your view of what is conserved and why is too simple, and essentially

All force interactions perform work against the vacuum activity manifesting
that force - the discrete, quantised energy exchanges between the
respective force carriers in question, traded in units of h-bar -
essentially, 'ambient' quantum momentum.

When we input mechanical energy to a such field, there is no number
scribbled down in a book somewhere - rather, it's an emergent calculation
determined by the application of the relevant F*d integrals being mediated
at lightspeed - ie, essentially instantaneously, as they pertain to the
respective dimensions of the given energy terms.

Thus if output and input energy terms are in different respective
dimensions, any equivalence between net energies as a function of changes
in time and space is dependent upon further conditions with regards to how
each term scales in the other's domain.

If both input and output energy terms are in the same fields and domains,
then their equality is a given.  And yet, it would be a step too far to
conclude that the Joule we get back out was 'the same' Joule we put it.
When we spend 1 J lifting a weight, so having performed work against
gravity, there isn't a tab somewhere saying "gravity owes Bob 1 J".  The
fact that we only get 1 J back out from the drop is simply an incidental
consequence of the invariant input vs output conditions.  But it's not
manifestly 'the same' Joule you put in - just the same amount of energy /

With the right change in those determinant conditions, we can get more out,
or less.  An under-unity, or over-unity result.

Consider the case for so-called 'non-dissipative' loss mechanisms, in which
the energy in question has NOT simply been radiated away to low-grade
heat.  I'm talking about 'non-thermodynamic' losses, in the literal sense.
For example:

 - Due to Sv (entropy viscosity - the subject of Rutherford's first paper
in 1886), a small NdFeB magnet will rapidly leap across a small airgap to
latch onto a lump of 'pig iron', in less time than is required for the
iron's subsequent induced magnetisation ('B', in Maxwell's terms) to reach
its corresponding threshold (Bmax, or even saturation density - Bmax - if
its coercivity is low enough).

So the iron's level of induced B, from the neo, continues increasing long
after the mechanical action's all over.

We could monitor this changing internal state, using a simple coil and
audio amplifier, tuning in to the so-called Barkhausen jumps, as
progressively harder-pinned domains succumb to the growing influence of
their lower-coercivity neighbors.   After some time, the clicking noise
abates, and so we know the sample's at Bmax.

We now prise them apart again, however because B has risen, so has the
mechanical force and thus work involved in separating them.

Quite simply, due to the time-dependent change in force, which did not
occur instantaneously at lightspeed, the system is mechanically under-unity
- it outputs less energy during the inbound integral, than must be input
during the outbound integral over the same distance.

So we could input 2 J, but only get 1 J back out.

Yet this 'loss' has not been dissipated as heat - it's simply energy that
never existed, never came to be, in the first place.  Energy that could've
been collected, had we constrained the neo's approach speed, to allow
induced B to keep up... but which wasn't, because we didn't.

Thus the extra Joule we had to input has performed more work against the
virtual-photon-spehere (being the EM mediator), than it in turn has output
back into the mechanical realm.  Assuming ultimate conservation - as you
would seem to - we've raised the vacuum energy by 1 J, with a 50%
under-unity EM-mechanical interaction.

Yet we don't need such exotica as obscure magnetic effects to achieve this
feat...  simply consider a moving mass, colliding inelastically with an
equal, static one:

 - so we could have 1 kg flying into a static 1 kg

- or equally, a rotating 1 kg-m^2 angular inertia being instantly braked
against an identical static one

Since spontaneously doubling the amount of inertia that a given conserved
momentum is divided into accordingly halves its speed, we end up with half
the kinetic energy.

"Ah", but you say, "the collision converted the other half of the KE into

But is that actually what happens?  If we began with say 1 kg * 1 m/s
linear momentum, so half a Joule, which then inelastically scoops up
another, static 1 kg, we now have 1 kg-m/s divided into two 1 kg masses,
hence a net system velocity of 0.5 m/s, and 125 mJ on each, for a 250 mJ
net KE.

Notice that we've necessarily assumed full conservation of our velocity
component, simply sharing it evenly between the two masses, in order to
conserve net momentum.

Given that the original KE value of 500 mJ was a function of that conserved
velocity, and that the final KE of 2 * 125 mJ is also dependent upon the
equitable distribution of that same conserved quantity..   where does the
velocity and thus momentum that could constitute mechanical heat come
from?  How could we have accelerated the air and molecules around the
system, if not by transferring momentum and thus velocity to them?  Which
would mean we'd have to have LESS than 0.5 m/s of velocity and thus less
than 0.5 kg-m/s of momentum and so less than 125 mJ on each 1 kg mass!

There can be no paradoxes..

In short, elastic collisions conserve net energy, but not net momentum -
try calculating the same interactions fully elastically and you'll
necessarily be invoking a rise in momentum.

Conversely, inelastic ones conserve net momentum, but not energy.  This
loss, by the very nature of its constituent terms and conserved quantities,
is non-dissipative.  Only its non-reversibility with respect to time
prevents easy access to energy gains.  This is entropy, albeit acting on a
level beyond strict 'thermodynamics'.

Like i've always said, the explicit instructions on how thwart CoE and CoM
are implicit within their terms of enforcement.  Read between the lines,
they tell you precisely what not to do if you don't want to get a unity

Without this kung fu, i would never have been so stupid as to take a second
look at Bessler's claim, let alone tackle it with confidence.  But with it,
the evidence of Leibniz et al meant that i couldn't fail.  Success was
guaranteed.  There had to be an unnoticed symmetry break riding through the
middle of classical mechanics, an elephant in the custard, that with a
little determination could be tracked and cornered...   and now i've bagged

Not just wounded it.  Not "close, but i'm running out of hamsters".  There
was a fully-grown African bull elephant perfectly concealed in the custard
bowl, and i've totally harnessed it, by "accelerating without
accelerating", and now nobody will believe me and it's so unfair etc.

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:37 PM, John Shop <quack...@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 1/06/2018 5:35 AM, Vibrator ! wrote:
> .  .  .
> The thing is, a real model is inherently suspect - defeating its
> ostensible purpose.  Batteries and motors can be hidden, etc.
> If you make it out of clear perspex with the minimum steel parts like
> bearings, springs, etc then there is nowhere to hide batteries.
> .  .  .  you've still no idea what the putative gain mechanism is.
> Since it requires new physics, this is unavoidable until the new physics
> mechanism that provides the gain can be guessed at.
> Now consider that you have the same thing in simulation - except now, the
> thing has its entire guts out.  You can see the values of everything, in
> every field.  Everything is independently metered, using standard formulas
> that can be manually checked by anyone.  So you can independently calculate
> the input and output work integrals, from their respective dependent
> variables, which are also all clearly displayed, and confirm for yourself
> that everything is being presented accurately.  You can immediately
> replicate the results on the back of an envelope, from first principles.
> Since all physics calculations and simulations are FOUNDED on conservation
> of energy, such simulations CANNOT produce "overunity".  If they do seem to
> produce it then you know you have a BUG in your code and by checking "the
> input and output work integrals" you can pin down which formula you have
> entered incorrectly, by finding the exact process in which excess energy
> appears (or disappears).  It is only when you get a perfect energy balance
> throughout (as well as CoM, etc) that you know your code is finally working.
> On 4/06/2018 1:03 AM, Vibrator ! wrote:
> .  .  . i've already done it.  .  .  No New physics.
> Sorry, if there is "No New physics" then you can't have done it.  You have
> simply made a mistake.  I suggest you find a friend who is good at physics
> to check your equations for the term(s) which you must have neglected or
> included in error.  Even if the person does not understand what you tell
> them, you can often discover the mistake yourself while trying to explain
> it to someone else at a detailed enough level.
> If you had built something which you claimed clearly worked (like Bessler
> did), then you could be right and you could have made an amazing
> (re)discovery that would require all the basic physics text books to need
> correcting with the NEW PHYSICS that your working model has demonstrated.
> But if it is just maths and simulation applied to standard known physics,
> then everybody who knows this stuff KNOWS that you must have made a
> mistake.  . . .  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
> Consider an illustration that might help.  Supposing you started with a
> litre of water in a flask, and decided to pass it through some very
> complicated transformation processes.  So you might boil it to a vapour,
> condense it in a fractional distillation column, run fractions through
> filters of various sorts, freeze some and grind it to a paste, and so on,
> ad nauseum.  In the end, no matter what you did to it, you will not have
> managed to increase or decrease the number of molecules of water through
> any of these processes.  The amount of water at the end would be just the
> same as what you started with - and almost all well educated people would
> refuse to believe otherwise.  Without NEW CHEMISTRY you cannot ever get an
> overunity production of water molecules.
> Well the same is true of energy.  You can transform it in far more ways
> than you can molecules, but through all these processes, the number of
> joules (just as the number of molecules) remains constant.  Physicists know
> this and CANNOT believe otherwise.  Unless you can propose some NEW PHYSICS
> to explain how the extra joules came to appear within the system, it is
> simply not possible to believe.  All the physics equations that we have are
> based on the conservation of energy because we have never had a system in
> captivity to study that breaks this law.

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