On Jun 24, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:
YOW -- WHAT YOU JUST SAID !!!!
On 11-06-24 04:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
So the only way for Rossi to make it produce a little steam and a
lot of hot water would be for him to adjust the anomalous heat
output. It would be a miracle if Rossi has such good control over
the anomalous heat that he can push the temperature up to 99°C and
have mostly liquid water go through plus a little steam. If he can
do that, he has truly mastered cold fusion!
Jed, man, think about that -- don't just jerk your knee at me in an
automatic defense of Rossi, really think about it.
Rossi has a factor of SEVEN in output level in the range he has to
hit in order to produce SOME steam and SOME hot water, and you have
just said it would be hard for him to control the anomalous heat
well enough to do that.
But Rossi's claiming to have produced exactly enough heat to
EXACTLY vaporize all the input water, and NOT HEAT THE STEAM beyond
boiling -- that target is orders of magnitude smaller than the
target he'd need to hit to produce some steam and some hot water!
If he overshoots his "dry steam" power level by even a little, the
steam temperature will go up by a lot; the specific heat of steam
is very small compared to the heat of vaporization of water. But
the temperature never rises more than about a degree over boiling!
Jed, the point you just made is the point that's been bugging me
all along -- it would take a miracle of fine control to generate
EXACTLY enough anomalous heat to EXACTLY vaporize all the input
water, without superheating the steam, and without leaving wet
steam or having the device spit water!
There's no evidence of that degree of control, no evidence of a
feedback loop which could be providing it, no reason except wishful
thinking to believe such control exists ... so the conclusion is
that he's actually got the power level set somewhere within the
"factor of 7" window, and he's producing very wet steam or a mix of
steam and liquid water; he does *NOT* have it "right on the edge",
producing dry steam just over the boiling point. It's absurd to
think he could exercise the level of precise control needed to
produce "exactly dry steam".
(And that about uses up my Friday night send-some-useless-email
time...)
Hi Stephen,
It is not difficult at all to achieve something that *looks* like
perfectly regulated high thermal output by simply using percolator
type effects to dump water into the output hose. I commented on this
earlier in another thread, quoted below.
On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:35 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
If you look at the E-cat design you can see that it has the
potential to act similar to a coffee percolator. See:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VIn_mQi1H-M/TZ1ZIpKD4-I/AAAAAAAALAE/
xo1T4ZRm41o/s1600/ECAT_explained.jpg
http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/search/en/WO2009125444
It is a boiling chamber followed by a vertical tube and elevated
ejection port. A relative humidity sensor will max out at 100%, and
would not be capable of detecting a percolator style of operation.
It is merely a polymer or metal oxide thin film protected by a
porous metal electrode. It can not measure steam quality. There
is no reason to expect that water on the surface of the protecting
porous metal electrode will have a significant effect on an already
100% RH reading.
A percolator can produce liquid mass flows far exceeding 1% by
volume of gas. The amount of percolation obtained can be
controlled by controlling the ratio of the flow of water to the
amount of heat applied to the chamber. Active controllers exist in
the Rossi device.
Water has been seen coming out of the hose. Unless careful
measurements are taken it is not known the quantity of water vs gas.
On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:53 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
It is notable that the power input varies depending on the
controller actions, that if the power input (plus any nuclear
output heat if any) should become less than that required to
convert all the input water to steam then the liquid excess will
eventually simply overflow, i.e. be pumped out into the hose and
down the drain.
Note that the pump rate is small, on the order of a few cc per
second, so it can take a while to fill up a hose held upright into
the air, even if the device itself is full of water - which
probably can not happen due to percolator type effects.
Ironically, all that is required to get "excess" heat is to *reduce*
the input power occasionally (or even permanently) so as to pump some
excess water out instead of steam.
Something that would obviously be helpful for demos would be the use
of translucent tubing, such as polyamide (nylon) tubing, which is
good up to 100 °C, instead of black rubber. See:
http://www.graylineinc.com/tubing-materials/nylon.html
A transparent U-trap just past the current steam exit might prove
informative.
This kind of optimization of systematic error could happen
unintentionally. The original E-cats used a pulsed pump which would
optimize the percolator effects. The smaller E-cats have a shorter
"chimney", which further optimizes such an effect and makes it even
more feasible and fast acting even if a smaller non-pulsed pump is used.
Best regards,
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
