At 01:43 PM 8/4/2011, Michele Comitini wrote:
I cannot find where Galantini declared that he
used the RH reading on the datalogger. Did he declare that?
He used the g/m^3 reading, which is a calculated
reading. I believe that this reading does
consider pressure, if the information is available.
Maybe he used the probe because it measures T
in the correct range up to 150°C.Â
Sure. However, that rating doesn't mean that it
provides accurate readings all through that range.
http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/37/3717appendixc1.shtml
If he knew the pressure at the point where the
probe was then with steam tables or Mollier
diagram the quality of steam is derived.
Why that probe with RH sensor then? Maybe it
just comes bundled with the datalogger.
The reading for g/m^3 requires the humidity sensor.
The Essen report points to a probe for
temperature only. Did they use a different way to find steam quality?
Essen and Kullander also report relying upon the g/m^3 display.
Michele, you have not pointed to a specific
"steam table" that allows the derivation of
quality of steam. Derived from what?
For saturated steam, which is obviously the
condition in the E-Cats, the pressure and
temperature are nailed to each other, and it is
independent of quality of the steam. Only if the
temperature rises above the saturated steam
temperature for the pressure will the quality of the steam be determinable.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.html
shows a Mollier diagram, but I see no way to use
this diagram to determine steam quality.
The question of how to use the Testo device to
measure steam quality has been asked many times.
The manufacturer and many others have stated it
cannot be done. Nobody who claims it can be done has shown the procedure.
Galantini provided no data as readings from the
meter, and no description of determination.
http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/37/3717appendixc1.shtml
However, he states:
I confirm that the measured temperature always
was higher than 100.1°C and that the measured
pressure in the chimney always was equal to the ambient pressure.
It appears that Galantini thinks that the
temperature of 100.1 C and "pressure at ambient"
-- which he does not state -- is adequate to
determine that the steam is dry. However, he's
totally neglected that pressure inside the E-Cat
*must* be greater than ambient, or steam would
not flow out. The measured temperature of 100.5
in the Marwan report for April indicates a
pressure of, as I recall, 1.03 bar for saturated steam.
Some of us have done the calculations for
expected steam velocity and pressure if all the
water were being vaporized. Galantini, if he did
measure the pressure in the E-cat and found it to
be "ambient," was making an approximation.
That the temperature is very stable indicates
that the steam is saturated, which means it is at least somewhat wet.
All appearances are that Galantini made a major
mistake, and he's not responded with actual data,
nor with a description of his procedure.
Bottom line, then, his testimony means nothing.
He is not an expert on steam, he's a chemist, he
happens to own a company which does environmental
testing, so he had the Testo data logger, I'd
assume, in stock and he offered to help, having no understanding of the issues.
About the device: http://www.deltaohm.com/ver2010/uk/st_airQ.php?str=HD37AB1347
With the HP474AC probe, the device will measure
temperature up to 150 C., with an accuracy of +/-
0.3 C, and humidity up to 100% with an accuracy,
over 95%, of +/- 3.5%. It measures atmospheric
pressure, but the sensor is not in the probe, it appears. It's in the device.
So we have a new mystery: how did Galantini
determine that pressure in the E-cat was
"ambient." Did he simply read the pressure
display and assume this was from the probe? I can
imagine someone unfamiliar with the instrument making that mistake.
Rather, we have a very strong indicator of the
pressure: it was at saturated steam pressure for
the temperature. The evidence for this is the
stable temperature observed, without a major
excursion above a stable temperature. Once the
steam is completely dry, the temperature can and very likely will rise.
The appearance is very strong from the
demonstration reports that a temperature above
100 C was assumed to indicate saturated steam,
which is a blatant error. There will be pressure
in the E-cat if any steam is being generated.
