Ok James I admit my ignorance, although I am not a blue collar worker in the AC field. I also admit my English is less than perfect. I do not know what you mean with "incommensurable quantities". Are you just supporting Ed Storms statements about quantities and temperature? I did understand that, it seems without connection to anything. However, I have very little experience from production of HHO gas and has learnt that it does not exist because of what Alan G. explains. I think I am back to my old believe that the talk about HHO gas is just wishful thinking or in worst case scam. Excusable or not my confusion (probably caused by ignorance) is now more or less eliminated. Good enough for me - thanks.
To Ed . I did not mean that the LENR process would be improved. My thinking was that if a 'heat motor' could have very good efficiency like 80 -90% due to high input temperature and low (room temperature) the LENR result which you explained previously need to be in a level of five or so to compensate for the losses due to energy losses when converting the energy both to the loop back and to consumption. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com [email protected] +1 916 436 1899 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 "Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort." PJM On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 9:44 AM, James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: > The confusion between incommensurable quantities is excusable in someone > who doesn't know the first thing about physics but not even in a blue > collar technician that works on household utilities like electrical wiring > or heating and air conditioning. > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Confusion seems to exist between energy and temperature. A very high >> temperature can be produced using very little energy if the energy is >> highly concentrated. This is done regularly using lasers and electric arcs. >> In the case of HHO, the chemical energy released when H2O forms is applied >> directly to the material where it is released by catalytic action. The skin >> feels no heat because the reaction is not catalyzed by the skin. >> >> This gas would make a poor fuel in an engine because the reaction >> produces a reduction in volume of gas, with only a temporary increases >> produced by heating the gas. In contrast, gasoline produces a large >> increase on gas volume, which is used to move the piston. >> >> However, use of such a gas might improve the efficiency of gasoline >> combustion. More convenient ways exist to do this, which have been applied >> over the years, thereby making the gasoline engine increasingly efficient. >> However, I have seen no evidence that LENR can be initiated this way. Even >> if it could, the heat energy would not be suitable to add much extra push >> to the piston before the heat was dissipated. The process needs a permanent >> increase in gas volume, not just a temporary increase cause by increased >> temperature. >> >> Ed Storms >> >> On Mar 18, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Lennart Thornros wrote: >> >> Axil, >> I admit total ignorance of the HHO theory. >> I have heard about people saying they can reduce gas consumption in >> autos. It has never taken any commercial format. >> I have a few questions though: >> 1. If HHO produce this high temperature, then it sounds to me to be >> logical that it saves gas in an Otto motor. The gasoline will explode in an >> instantaneously increased pressure due to HHO increases the temperature and >> therefore the pressure (compression). Is that how it works? >> 2. Is it not true that if we can produce any 'heat motor' with higher >> temperature we will increase COP? At 6,000 C temperature and 20C on the >> exhaust a heat motor should be competitive with an electrical motor when it >> comes to COP. >> 3. If 1 and 2 is correct then a LENR process at COP 2 would be feasible >> as it at least will have excess energy after feeding its own input. Is that >> correct? >> I am OK with a lesson in basics:) >> >> Best Regards , >> Lennart Thornros >> >> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com >> [email protected] >> +1 916 436 1899 >> 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 >> >> "Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a >> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort." PJM >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:10 PM, Axil Axil <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Why is a HHO flame able to vaporize tungsten and yet will not burn the >>> skin of your hand. >>> >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax4sW3bo_dM >>> >>> >>> The HHO gas stream contains solid crystals of water. These crystals act >>> like nano lenses that concentrate infrared light in the boundary layer >>> between a shiny metal surface and a dielectric gas like hydrogen or oxygen. >>> The science that studies this effect is called nanoplasmonics. >>> >>> >>> The heat energy is confined to the metal surface and locked in(AKA dark >>> mode) and concentrated their like in a EMF black hole. >>> >>> >>> The metal surface is said to have a negative coefficient of reflectivity. >>> This keeps the heat from leaving the metal surface. In this way the heat >>> energy builds up to huge temperatures to the point where it will vaporize >>> tungsten. >>> >>> >>> The skin on your hand has a positive index of reflectivity; it is not >>> shiny. The heat from hydrogen combustion is not confined to the surface of >>> your skin and can escape to the surrounding air. So you will not be readily >>> burned by the HHO flame. >>> >>> >>> This is a basic LENR effect (aka evanescent wave - >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_wave) of energy concentration >>> and focusing. This indicates that the upper temperature limit of the LENR >>> effect is beyond the temperature required to vaporize tungsten (5930 °C, >>> 10706 °F) >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, the combustion temperature of hydrogen is only 2,660 >>> °C with oxygen. Do I need to spell this out any further? >>> >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ceOL83PM24 >>> >>> >>> On the downside, spark ignition of HHO does not use the LENR effect of >>> the evanescent wave. >>> >>> So burning hydrogen in oxygen is only combustion and not LENR. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >
