Well there have been other recent examples from very "authoritative" sources:
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg88835.html So I felt a general comment was in order. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Lennart Thornros <[email protected]>wrote: > James > Ok I am not so sensitive so it is OK- but felt uncalled for as I preempted > my weakness:) > Hard to follow if you do not say to whom. > > Best Regards , > Lennart Thornros > > www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com > [email protected] > +1 916 436 1899 > 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 > > "Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a > commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort." PJM > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:39 PM, James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Lennart, my comment wasn't directed at you but at Axil's question: "Do I >> need to spell this out any further?" After giving temperature numbers as >> though they represented energy or power. I tend to dismiss Axil's >> asserted-as-fact speculations posing as theory, if for no other reason than >> their tone -- but this takes the cake. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Lennart Thornros >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Thanks James, >>> I can use the thesaurus if the word was hard. I could not understand the >>> way you used it. >>> I think the quantities are comparable. They can be measured in any >>> pressure r volume dimension as far as I am concerned. >>> What I did not understand was what you are comparing. I did not mean to >>> compare anything. Did I ? >>> I take it as if you just supported Ed Storms post. I understand he is >>> saying that it is a chemical (catalytic) action in the welding example. >>> I have no experience of HHO and therefore I supposed that if there was >>> enough heat capacity in the gas (HHO) to heat the metal it should be enough >>> to heat the relatively small amount of gas (with a much smaller heat >>> capacity than metal). Yes, that might be ignorant but it is not a very >>> 'high ceiling' if you have problem overseeing that kind of ignorance. >>> >>> >>> Best Regards , >>> Lennart Thornros >>> >>> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com >>> [email protected] >>> +1 916 436 1899 >>> 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 >>> >>> "Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a >>> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort." PJM >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 10:19 AM, James Bowery <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_commensurability#Commensurability >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Lennart Thornros < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ok James I admit my ignorance, although I am not a blue collar worker >>>>> in the AC field. I also admit my English is less than perfect. I do not >>>>> know what you mean with "incommensurable quantities". Are you just >>>>> supporting Ed Storms statements about quantities and temperature? I did >>>>> understand that, it seems without connection to anything. >>>>> However, I have very little experience from production of HHO gas and >>>>> has learnt that it does not exist because of what Alan G. explains. I >>>>> think >>>>> I am back to my old believe that the talk about HHO gas is just wishful >>>>> thinking or in worst case scam. >>>>> Excusable or not my confusion (probably caused by ignorance) is now >>>>> more or less eliminated. Good enough for me - thanks. >>>>> >>>>> To Ed . I did not mean that the LENR process would be improved. My >>>>> thinking was that if a 'heat motor' could have very good efficiency like >>>>> 80 >>>>> -90% due to high input temperature and low (room temperature) the LENR >>>>> result which you explained previously need to be in a level of five or so >>>>> to compensate for the losses due to energy losses when converting the >>>>> energy both to the loop back and to consumption. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards , >>>>> Lennart Thornros >>>>> >>>>> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> +1 916 436 1899 >>>>> 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 >>>>> >>>>> "Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a >>>>> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort." >>>>> PJM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 9:44 AM, James Bowery <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The confusion between incommensurable quantities is excusable in >>>>>> someone who doesn't know the first thing about physics but not even in a >>>>>> blue collar technician that works on household utilities like electrical >>>>>> wiring or heating and air conditioning. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Edmund Storms < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Confusion seems to exist between energy and temperature. A very high >>>>>>> temperature can be produced using very little energy if the energy is >>>>>>> highly concentrated. This is done regularly using lasers and electric >>>>>>> arcs. >>>>>>> In the case of HHO, the chemical energy released when H2O forms is >>>>>>> applied >>>>>>> directly to the material where it is released by catalytic action. The >>>>>>> skin >>>>>>> feels no heat because the reaction is not catalyzed by the skin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This gas would make a poor fuel in an engine because the reaction >>>>>>> produces a reduction in volume of gas, with only a temporary increases >>>>>>> produced by heating the gas. In contrast, gasoline produces a large >>>>>>> increase on gas volume, which is used to move the piston. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, use of such a gas might improve the efficiency of gasoline >>>>>>> combustion. More convenient ways exist to do this, which have been >>>>>>> applied >>>>>>> over the years, thereby making the gasoline engine increasingly >>>>>>> efficient. >>>>>>> However, I have seen no evidence that LENR can be initiated this way. >>>>>>> Even >>>>>>> if it could, the heat energy would not be suitable to add much extra >>>>>>> push >>>>>>> to the piston before the heat was dissipated. The process needs a >>>>>>> permanent >>>>>>> increase in gas volume, not just a temporary increase cause by increased >>>>>>> temperature. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ed Storms >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Lennart Thornros wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Axil, >>>>>>> I admit total ignorance of the HHO theory. >>>>>>> I have heard about people saying they can reduce gas consumption in >>>>>>> autos. It has never taken any commercial format. >>>>>>> I have a few questions though: >>>>>>> 1. If HHO produce this high temperature, then it sounds to me to be >>>>>>> logical that it saves gas in an Otto motor. The gasoline will explode >>>>>>> in an >>>>>>> instantaneously increased pressure due to HHO increases the temperature >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> therefore the pressure (compression). Is that how it works? >>>>>>> 2. Is it not true that if we can produce any 'heat motor' with >>>>>>> higher temperature we will increase COP? At 6,000 C temperature and 20C >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the exhaust a heat motor should be competitive with an electrical motor >>>>>>> when it comes to COP. >>>>>>> 3. If 1 and 2 is correct then a LENR process at COP 2 would be >>>>>>> feasible as it at least will have excess energy after feeding its own >>>>>>> input. Is that correct? >>>>>>> I am OK with a lesson in basics:) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards , >>>>>>> Lennart Thornros >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> +1 916 436 1899 >>>>>>> 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a >>>>>>> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused >>>>>>> effort." PJM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:10 PM, Axil Axil <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why is a HHO flame able to vaporize tungsten and yet will not >>>>>>>> burn the skin of your hand. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax4sW3bo_dM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The HHO gas stream contains solid crystals of water. These crystals >>>>>>>> act like nano lenses that concentrate infrared light in the boundary >>>>>>>> layer >>>>>>>> between a shiny metal surface and a dielectric gas like hydrogen or >>>>>>>> oxygen. >>>>>>>> The science that studies this effect is called nanoplasmonics. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The heat energy is confined to the metal surface and locked in(AKA >>>>>>>> dark mode) and concentrated their like in a EMF black hole. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The metal surface is said to have a negative coefficient of >>>>>>>> reflectivity. This keeps the heat from leaving the metal surface. >>>>>>>> In this way the heat energy builds up to huge temperatures to the point >>>>>>>> where it will vaporize tungsten. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The skin on your hand has a positive index of reflectivity; it is >>>>>>>> not shiny. The heat from hydrogen combustion is not confined to the >>>>>>>> surface >>>>>>>> of your skin and can escape to the surrounding air. So you will not be >>>>>>>> readily burned by the HHO flame. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is a basic LENR effect (aka evanescent wave - >>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_wave) of energy >>>>>>>> concentration and focusing. This indicates that the upper temperature >>>>>>>> limit >>>>>>>> of the LENR effect is beyond the temperature required to vaporize >>>>>>>> tungsten >>>>>>>> (5930 °C, 10706 °F) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the other hand, the combustion temperature of hydrogen is only >>>>>>>> 2,660 °C with oxygen. Do I need to spell this out any further? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ceOL83PM24 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the downside, spark ignition of HHO does not use the LENR effect >>>>>>>> of the evanescent wave. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So burning hydrogen in oxygen is only combustion and not LENR. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
