I may be able to assist to the hangout too. I've submitted my schedule to the doodle, but can't really guarantee I'll be there.
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:40 PM, John Blossom - Shore Communications Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: > Michael, as long as you, Ari and Joseph can make it, and the scheduling > tool said that you can, I think that we'll have the core of the discussion. > The objective is not to put on a show as much as it is to get the core OT > thinkers driving the discussion. Let the ideas drive the interest. > > BTW, I shifted it up a half your, I have a telecon that starts at 12.30. > Consider this a kickoff event - let's shoot for somewhere south of an > hour's worth of very productive conversation and then let's start thinking > about how to keep the conversations going at a very productive level on a > more regular basis. I am also totally for more impromptu efforts, but for > the sake of the community if we can post our conversations for > community-wide access, that can help. > > Best Regards, > > John Blossom > President > Shore Communications Inc. > > where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore > Communications Inc.) > > web: shore.com > blog: contentblogger.com > email: jblos...@shore.com > phone: 203.293.8511 > fax: 203.663.8259 > twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom > LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> > facebook: John Blossom > skype: jblossom > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Michael MacFadden < > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> John, >> >> Again I don't mean to delay the effort. But looking at the attendee >> responses, I only see one person on the list that has agreed to attend that >> has really been heavily working OT issues in the last year or so (Joseph). >> So I am not sure what the objectives or the outcome of the meeting will be >> with such low participation from OT experts. >> >> By no means do I mean to diminish any one else's capabilities, but if the >> intention is to really dig in to OT, then I think we night need additional >> participation to be successful. >> >> ~Michael >> >> On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "John Blossom - Shore Communications Inc." < >> jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >> > I agree wholeheartedly that the entire Apache Wave community should be >> > excited about participating, and I assume that everyone on the list is >> > seeing this and should want to join in. If we have to reschedule, no >> > biggie, we're at square zero and it's more about getting people on board >> > and brainstorming. If you've been invited already, then invite others who >> > you think should be excited. To that end, here's the link to the event: >> > >> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JohnBlossom/posts/KTB6EkxB99q >> > >> > If you're an Apache Wave committer and you miss the event, then you'll be >> > able to view it via YouTube via a link that I'll post here. >> > >> > I do want to start accelerating communications more in the community, but >> > this is a busy week. >> > >> > >> > Best Regards, >> > >> > John Blossom >> > President >> > Shore Communications Inc. >> > >> > where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >> > Communications Inc.) >> > >> > web: shore.com >> > blog: contentblogger.com >> > email: jblos...@shore.com >> > phone: 203.293.8511 >> > fax: 203.663.8259 >> > twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> > LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> > facebook: John Blossom >> > skype: jblossom >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Michael MacFadden < >> > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> I don't want to delay this thing, but are there really no other people >> who >> >> are interested in this? I think we should really try to reach out >> >> personally to some other folks to see if we can attract them in. >> >> >> >> ~Michael >> >> >> >> On 7/23/13 7:00 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> 1200 ET, btw - bad math. >> >>> >> >>> All the best, >> >>> >> >>> John Blossom >> >>> >> >>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> OK, the consensus time/date for the hangout seems to be Wednesday, 31 >> >>>> July, 1600 UTC (1000 EDT). I will create and event later today in >> >>>> Hangouts. >> >>>> If you're on the wave-dev list and have a Google login, please forward >> >>>> me >> >>>> your email ID/Google+ ID privately and I will add you to the circle of >> >>>> invitees. I Have Joseph's ID already and I believe Ali and Michael >> also, >> >>>> but if you have a doubt, just send it along. If you don't make the >> >>>> hangout >> >>>> itself, I will be sure to share the link here for the common record. >> >>>> >> >>>> All the best, >> >>>> >> >>>> John Blossom >> >>>> >> >>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:06 AM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Ali, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> New tool for me, but worth a try. Here's the Doodle link: >> >>>>> http://doodle.com/5z7usamgh7kee4gf >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I am open to other times, but these seem to be the most logical. >> Please >> >>>>> remember that UTC at this time of year is one hour less ahead from >> the >> >>>>> U.S. >> >>>>> time zones due to Daylight Savings Time - e.g., ET is UTC+4 right >> now. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> All the best, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> John Blossom >> >>>>> >> >>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ali Lown <a...@lown.me.uk> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I agree that another hangout sounds fun. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> John, how about setting up a Doodle for us to mark some dates on? >> >>>>>> (http://doodle.com/) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Ali >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 17 July 2013 15:33, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>> Great, Michael, find a date that works for you that seems to match >> >>>>>> with >> >>>>>>> others' interests and I will be glad to arrange for this. We can >> >>>>>> have >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> link available but not make public, if that helps to encourage >> >>>>>> constructive >> >>>>>>> participation. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> All the best, >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> John Blossom >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Michael MacFadden < >> >>>>>>> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I am definitely interested. I will check my schedule for next >> >>>>>> week. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> ~Michael >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 7/16/13 11:02 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> That was my thought, also. ApacheWavers, please respond with some >> >>>>>> avails >> >>>>>>>>> calibrated to UT+1 for this week and next week. Time to get this >> >>>>>> party >> >>>>>>>>> started! My L,A. project is waiting for the funder to come >> >>>>>> through, >> >>>>>> but my >> >>>>>>>>> Nkommo project is gaining steam - hopeful that we'll have some >> >>>>>> exciting >> >>>>>>>>> announcements fairly soon. Time to change the world with Wave!!! >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> All the best, >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> John Blossom >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>>>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Gentle < >> jose...@gmail.com >> >>> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> I've had a busy few weeks - gearing up to launch our product at >> >>>>>> work. >> >>>>>>>>>> We should organize another hangout sometime. >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> -J >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM, John Blossom - Shore >> >>>>>> Communications >> >>>>>>>>>> Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> Soo...how is this initiative going? How may I help to move it >> >>>>>> forward? >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> John Blossom >> >>>>>>>>>>> President >> >>>>>>>>>>> Shore Communications Inc. >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >> >>>>>>>>>>> Communications Inc.) >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> web: shore.com >> >>>>>>>>>>> blog: contentblogger.com >> >>>>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@shore.com >> >>>>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>>>>>>>>>> fax: 203.663.8259 >> >>>>>>>>>>> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> >>>>>>>>>>> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: John Blossom >> >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> >>>>>>>>>>> facebook: John Blossom >> >>>>>>>>>>> skype: jblossom >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, John Blossom >> >>>>>> <jblos...@gmail.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ingenious, Torben, certainly adds efficiency. John >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Torben Weis < >> >>>>>> torben.w...@gmail.com> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/6/25 Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When peers connect, they send each other missing ops. >> >>>>>> Figuring >> >>>>>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which ops are missing can be surprisingly tricky - but >> >>>>>> we'll >> >>>>>>>>>> figure >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that out later. New ops must be ingested in order, so >> >>>>>> we >> >>>>>> always >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ingest >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an operation after ingesting all of its parents. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just use a Merkle Tree that is at the same time a prefix >> >>>>>> tree with >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> respect >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the hashes of the ops (explanation below). >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bandwidth usage is O(1) if both clients are in sync and >> >>>>>> O(log >> >>>>>>>>>> n) if >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they have one or few different ops and O(n) in the worst >> >>>>>> case, >> >>>>>>>>>> where n >> >>>>>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the number of ops. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Constructing the tree is simple. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the hash function output 20 bytes and let's encode this >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> hex. >> >>>>>>>>>> This >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> results in a hash-string of 40 hex-characters for each >> >>>>>> operation. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Each node hashes over the hashes of its children. Leaf-nodes >> >>>>>>>>>> correspond to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> operations and thus use the hash value of their respective >> >>>>>>>>>> operation. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree-invariant is that all siblings on level x share the >> >>>>>> same >> >>>>>>>>>> prefix >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> x hex-characters. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree is not sent over the network. Instead, clients >> >>>>>> start >> >>>>>>>>>> comparing >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hashes at the root. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two clients compare their root hash. If it is equal, the >> >>>>>> entire >> >>>>>>>>>> tree is >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> equal and therefore they are in sync. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, they download all direct children and repeat the >> >>>>>> procedure >> >>>>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> each >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-tree rooted by one of these children. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, if child number 3 has a different hash, but all >> >>>>>> others >> >>>>>>>>>> share >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same hash, then we have learned that there are one or >> >>>>>> more >> >>>>>> ops >> >>>>>>>>>> with a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hash of 3xxxx... that are different and need syncing. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Typically we can limit the depth of the tree to few levels. >> >>>>>> 8 >> >>>>>> levels >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> already yield a tree that could store 16^8 possible ops. So >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>> worst >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> case two clients need to wait for 8 round-trips to >> >>>>>> determine a >> >>>>>>>>>> missing >> >>>>>>>>>> op. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, each client sends a time stamp. So when >> >>>>>> syncing we >> >>>>>>>>>> report >> >>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last time stamp received from this client and ask for all >> >>>>>> ops >> >>>>>> this >> >>>>>>>>>> client >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> received later. If these are few, then simply get them (even >> >>>>>> if we >> >>>>>>>>>> know >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the ops already, because we got them from another >> >>>>>> client). >> >>>>>>>>>> If >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are too many ops, fall back to the merkle tree. With a good >> >>>>>>>>>> approximation >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of RTT and bandwidth, it is easy to calculate which >> >>>>>> algorithm >> >>>>>> is the >> >>>>>>>>>> best >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to sync two clients. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Torben >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- Regards/Saludos, Bruno Gonzalez http://www.stenyak.com | stenyak @ irc://irc.freenode.net
