Looks like there were some more votes on the other tool. On 7/24/13 1:25 PM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Thanks, Michael, Ali, if you could please confirm that you'll be able to >attend, that would be great. Any concerns, please don't hesitate to bring >them up now, thanks. > >All the best, > >John Blossom > >email: jblos...@gmail.com >phone: 203.293.8511 >google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Great. >> >> I'd like to ask that everyone who attends has a basic understanding of >> how wave's current OT algorithm works. There are several videos and >> blog posts on the subject. Here's a video of me explaining the same >> algorithm in the context of sharejs: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsfiADbXTPo >> ... but there's many more resources kicking around. >> >> -J >> >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:48 AM, Bruno Gonzalez (aka stenyak) >> <sten...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I may be able to assist to the hangout too. I've submitted my schedule >> > to the doodle, but can't really guarantee I'll be there. >> > >> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:40 PM, John Blossom - Shore Communications >> > Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >> Michael, as long as you, Ari and Joseph can make it, and the >>scheduling >> >> tool said that you can, I think that we'll have the core of the >> discussion. >> >> The objective is not to put on a show as much as it is to get the >>core >> OT >> >> thinkers driving the discussion. Let the ideas drive the interest. >> >> >> >> BTW, I shifted it up a half your, I have a telecon that starts at >>12.30. >> >> Consider this a kickoff event - let's shoot for somewhere south of an >> >> hour's worth of very productive conversation and then let's start >> thinking >> >> about how to keep the conversations going at a very productive level >>on >> a >> >> more regular basis. I am also totally for more impromptu efforts, but >> for >> >> the sake of the community if we can post our conversations for >> >> community-wide access, that can help. >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> >> >> John Blossom >> >> President >> >> Shore Communications Inc. >> >> >> >> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >> >> Communications Inc.) >> >> >> >> web: shore.com >> >> blog: contentblogger.com >> >> email: jblos...@shore.com >> >> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> fax: 203.663.8259 >> >> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> >> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> >> facebook: John Blossom >> >> skype: jblossom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Michael MacFadden < >> >> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> John, >> >>> >> >>> Again I don't mean to delay the effort. But looking at the attendee >> >>> responses, I only see one person on the list that has agreed to >>attend >> that >> >>> has really been heavily working OT issues in the last year or so >> (Joseph). >> >>> So I am not sure what the objectives or the outcome of the meeting >> will be >> >>> with such low participation from OT experts. >> >>> >> >>> By no means do I mean to diminish any one else's capabilities, but >>if >> the >> >>> intention is to really dig in to OT, then I think we night need >> additional >> >>> participation to be successful. >> >>> >> >>> ~Michael >> >>> >> >>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "John Blossom - Shore Communications >> Inc." < >> >>> jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > I agree wholeheartedly that the entire Apache Wave community >>should >> be >> >>> > excited about participating, and I assume that everyone on the >>list >> is >> >>> > seeing this and should want to join in. If we have to reschedule, >>no >> >>> > biggie, we're at square zero and it's more about getting people on >> board >> >>> > and brainstorming. If you've been invited already, then invite >> others who >> >>> > you think should be excited. To that end, here's the link to the >> event: >> >>> > >> >>> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JohnBlossom/posts/KTB6EkxB99q >> >>> > >> >>> > If you're an Apache Wave committer and you miss the event, then >> you'll be >> >>> > able to view it via YouTube via a link that I'll post here. >> >>> > >> >>> > I do want to start accelerating communications more in the >> community, but >> >>> > this is a busy week. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > Best Regards, >> >>> > >> >>> > John Blossom >> >>> > President >> >>> > Shore Communications Inc. >> >>> > >> >>> > where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >> >>> > Communications Inc.) >> >>> > >> >>> > web: shore.com >> >>> > blog: contentblogger.com >> >>> > email: jblos...@shore.com >> >>> > phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> > fax: 203.663.8259 >> >>> > twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> >>> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> > LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> >>> > facebook: John Blossom >> >>> > skype: jblossom >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Michael MacFadden < >> >>> > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> I don't want to delay this thing, but are there really no other >> people >> >>> who >> >>> >> are interested in this? I think we should really try to reach >>out >> >>> >> personally to some other folks to see if we can attract them in. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> ~Michael >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On 7/23/13 7:00 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >>> 1200 ET, btw - bad math. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> All the best, >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> John Blossom >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>> >>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> >>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, John Blossom >><jblos...@gmail.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>>> OK, the consensus time/date for the hangout seems to be >> Wednesday, 31 >> >>> >>>> July, 1600 UTC (1000 EDT). I will create and event later today >>in >> >>> >>>> Hangouts. >> >>> >>>> If you're on the wave-dev list and have a Google login, please >> forward >> >>> >>>> me >> >>> >>>> your email ID/Google+ ID privately and I will add you to the >> circle of >> >>> >>>> invitees. I Have Joseph's ID already and I believe Ali and >>Michael >> >>> also, >> >>> >>>> but if you have a doubt, just send it along. If you don't make >>the >> >>> >>>> hangout >> >>> >>>> itself, I will be sure to share the link here for the common >> record. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> All the best, >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> John Blossom >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>> >>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> >>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:06 AM, John Blossom >><jblos...@gmail.com >> > >> >>> >>>> wrote: >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>>> Ali, >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> New tool for me, but worth a try. Here's the Doodle link: >> >>> >>>>> http://doodle.com/5z7usamgh7kee4gf >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> I am open to other times, but these seem to be the most >>logical. >> >>> Please >> >>> >>>>> remember that UTC at this time of year is one hour less ahead >> from >> >>> the >> >>> >>>>> U.S. >> >>> >>>>> time zones due to Daylight Savings Time - e.g., ET is UTC+4 >>right >> >>> now. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> All the best, >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> John Blossom >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>> >>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> >>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ali Lown <a...@lown.me.uk> >> wrote: >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> I agree that another hangout sounds fun. >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> John, how about setting up a Doodle for us to mark some dates >> on? >> >>> >>>>>> (http://doodle.com/) >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> Ali >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> On 17 July 2013 15:33, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>> Great, Michael, find a date that works for you that seems to >> match >> >>> >>>>>> with >> >>> >>>>>>> others' interests and I will be glad to arrange for this. We >> can >> >>> >>>>>> have >> >>> >>>>>> the >> >>> >>>>>>> link available but not make public, if that helps to >>encourage >> >>> >>>>>> constructive >> >>> >>>>>>> participation. >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> All the best, >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> John Blossom >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>> >>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> >>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Michael MacFadden < >> >>> >>>>>>> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely interested. I will check my schedule for >>next >> >>> >>>>>> week. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> ~Michael >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> On 7/16/13 11:02 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> That was my thought, also. ApacheWavers, please respond >>with >> some >> >>> >>>>>> avails >> >>> >>>>>>>>> calibrated to UT+1 for this week and next week. Time to >>get >> this >> >>> >>>>>> party >> >>> >>>>>>>>> started! My L,A. project is waiting for the funder to come >> >>> >>>>>> through, >> >>> >>>>>> but my >> >>> >>>>>>>>> Nkommo project is gaining steam - hopeful that we'll have >> some >> >>> >>>>>> exciting >> >>> >>>>>>>>> announcements fairly soon. Time to change the world with >> Wave!!! >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> All the best, >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> John Blossom >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >>> >>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> >>>>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Gentle < >> >>> jose...@gmail.com >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> I've had a busy few weeks - gearing up to launch our >> product at >> >>> >>>>>> work. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> We should organize another hangout sometime. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -J >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM, John Blossom - Shore >> >>> >>>>>> Communications >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Soo...how is this initiative going? How may I help to >>move >> it >> >>> >>>>>> forward? >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> John Blossom >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> President >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shore Communications Inc. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of >> Shore >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Communications Inc.) >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> web: shore.com >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> blog: contentblogger.com >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@shore.com >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> fax: 203.663.8259 >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: John Blossom >> >>> >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> facebook: John Blossom >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> skype: jblossom >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, John Blossom >> >>> >>>>>> <jblos...@gmail.com >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ingenious, Torben, certainly adds efficiency. John >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Torben Weis < >> >>> >>>>>> torben.w...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/6/25 Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When peers connect, they send each other missing >>ops. >> >>> >>>>>> Figuring >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> out >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which ops are missing can be surprisingly tricky - >>but >> >>> >>>>>> we'll >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> figure >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that out later. New ops must be ingested in order, >>so >> >>> >>>>>> we >> >>> >>>>>> always >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ingest >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an operation after ingesting all of its parents. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just use a Merkle Tree that is at the same time a >>prefix >> >>> >>>>>> tree with >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> respect >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the hashes of the ops (explanation below). >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bandwidth usage is O(1) if both clients are in >>sync >> and >> >>> >>>>>> O(log >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> n) if >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they have one or few different ops and O(n) in the >>worst >> >>> >>>>>> case, >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> where n >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> in >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the number of ops. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Constructing the tree is simple. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the hash function output 20 bytes and let's encode >> this >> >>> >>>>>> in >> >>> >>>>>> hex. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> This >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> results in a hash-string of 40 hex-characters for each >> >>> >>>>>> operation. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Each node hashes over the hashes of its children. >> Leaf-nodes >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> correspond to >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> operations and thus use the hash value of their >> respective >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> operation. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree-invariant is that all siblings on level x >>share >> the >> >>> >>>>>> same >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> prefix >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> x hex-characters. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree is not sent over the network. Instead, >>clients >> >>> >>>>>> start >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> comparing >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hashes at the root. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two clients compare their root hash. If it is equal, >>the >> >>> >>>>>> entire >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> tree is >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> equal and therefore they are in sync. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, they download all direct children and repeat >>the >> >>> >>>>>> procedure >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> for >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> each >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-tree rooted by one of these children. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, if child number 3 has a different hash, >>but >> all >> >>> >>>>>> others >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> share >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same hash, then we have learned that there are >>one or >> >>> >>>>>> more >> >>> >>>>>> ops >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> with a >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hash of 3xxxx... that are different and need syncing. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Typically we can limit the depth of the tree to few >> levels. >> >>> >>>>>> 8 >> >>> >>>>>> levels >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> already yield a tree that could store 16^8 possible >>ops. >> So >> >>> >>>>>> in >> >>> >>>>>> the >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> worst >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> case two clients need to wait for 8 round-trips to >> >>> >>>>>> determine a >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> missing >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> op. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, each client sends a time stamp. So when >> >>> >>>>>> syncing we >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> report >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last time stamp received from this client and ask for >>all >> >>> >>>>>> ops >> >>> >>>>>> this >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> client >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> received later. If these are few, then simply get them >> (even >> >>> >>>>>> if we >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> know >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the ops already, because we got them from >>another >> >>> >>>>>> client). >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> If >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are too many ops, fall back to the merkle tree. With a >> good >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> approximation >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of RTT and bandwidth, it is easy to calculate which >> >>> >>>>>> algorithm >> >>> >>>>>> is the >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> best >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to sync two clients. >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Torben >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Regards/Saludos, >> > Bruno Gonzalez >> > >> > http://www.stenyak.com | stenyak @ irc://irc.freenode.net >>
