What time is the meeting again? I had voted on the alternative web site along with some other folks. I didn't see any slots that everyone could meet.
On 7/29/13 6:45 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >Michael, will you be able to join us on the Hangout this Wednesday? > >All the best, > >John Blossom > >email: jblos...@gmail.com >phone: 203.293.8511 >google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom > > >On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Michael MacFadden < >michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Looks like there were some more votes on the other tool. >> >> On 7/24/13 1:25 PM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >Thanks, Michael, Ali, if you could please confirm that you'll be able >>to >> >attend, that would be great. Any concerns, please don't hesitate to >>bring >> >them up now, thanks. >> > >> >All the best, >> > >> >John Blossom >> > >> >email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >phone: 203.293.8511 >> >google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> > >> > >> >On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> > >> >> Great. >> >> >> >> I'd like to ask that everyone who attends has a basic understanding >>of >> >> how wave's current OT algorithm works. There are several videos and >> >> blog posts on the subject. Here's a video of me explaining the same >> >> algorithm in the context of sharejs: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsfiADbXTPo >> >> ... but there's many more resources kicking around. >> >> >> >> -J >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:48 AM, Bruno Gonzalez (aka stenyak) >> >> <sten...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > I may be able to assist to the hangout too. I've submitted my >>schedule >> >> > to the doodle, but can't really guarantee I'll be there. >> >> > >> >> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:40 PM, John Blossom - Shore >>Communications >> >> > Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >> >> Michael, as long as you, Ari and Joseph can make it, and the >> >>scheduling >> >> >> tool said that you can, I think that we'll have the core of the >> >> discussion. >> >> >> The objective is not to put on a show as much as it is to get the >> >>core >> >> OT >> >> >> thinkers driving the discussion. Let the ideas drive the interest. >> >> >> >> >> >> BTW, I shifted it up a half your, I have a telecon that starts at >> >>12.30. >> >> >> Consider this a kickoff event - let's shoot for somewhere south >>of an >> >> >> hour's worth of very productive conversation and then let's start >> >> thinking >> >> >> about how to keep the conversations going at a very productive >>level >> >>on >> >> a >> >> >> more regular basis. I am also totally for more impromptu efforts, >>but >> >> for >> >> >> the sake of the community if we can post our conversations for >> >> >> community-wide access, that can help. >> >> >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> >> >> >> >> John Blossom >> >> >> President >> >> >> Shore Communications Inc. >> >> >> >> >> >> where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >> >> >> Communications Inc.) >> >> >> >> >> >> web: shore.com >> >> >> blog: contentblogger.com >> >> >> email: jblos...@shore.com >> >> >> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >> fax: 203.663.8259 >> >> >> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> >> >> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >> LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> >> >> facebook: John Blossom >> >> >> skype: jblossom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Michael MacFadden < >> >> >> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> John, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Again I don't mean to delay the effort. But looking at the >>attendee >> >> >>> responses, I only see one person on the list that has agreed to >> >>attend >> >> that >> >> >>> has really been heavily working OT issues in the last year or so >> >> (Joseph). >> >> >>> So I am not sure what the objectives or the outcome of the >>meeting >> >> will be >> >> >>> with such low participation from OT experts. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> By no means do I mean to diminish any one else's capabilities, >>but >> >>if >> >> the >> >> >>> intention is to really dig in to OT, then I think we night need >> >> additional >> >> >>> participation to be successful. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> ~Michael >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 8:40 AM, "John Blossom - Shore Communications >> >> Inc." < >> >> >>> jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > I agree wholeheartedly that the entire Apache Wave community >> >>should >> >> be >> >> >>> > excited about participating, and I assume that everyone on the >> >>list >> >> is >> >> >>> > seeing this and should want to join in. If we have to >>reschedule, >> >>no >> >> >>> > biggie, we're at square zero and it's more about getting >>people on >> >> board >> >> >>> > and brainstorming. If you've been invited already, then invite >> >> others who >> >> >>> > you think should be excited. To that end, here's the link to >>the >> >> event: >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JohnBlossom/posts/KTB6EkxB99q >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > If you're an Apache Wave committer and you miss the event, then >> >> you'll be >> >> >>> > able to view it via YouTube via a link that I'll post here. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > I do want to start accelerating communications more in the >> >> community, but >> >> >>> > this is a busy week. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Best Regards, >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > John Blossom >> >> >>> > President >> >> >>> > Shore Communications Inc. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > where content, technology and people meet. (Salesmark of Shore >> >> >>> > Communications Inc.) >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > web: shore.com >> >> >>> > blog: contentblogger.com >> >> >>> > email: jblos...@shore.com >> >> >>> > phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >>> > fax: 203.663.8259 >> >> >>> > twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> >> >>> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >>> > LinkedIn: John Blossom <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> >> >>> > facebook: John Blossom >> >> >>> > skype: jblossom >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Michael MacFadden < >> >> >>> > michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >> I don't want to delay this thing, but are there really no >>other >> >> people >> >> >>> who >> >> >>> >> are interested in this? I think we should really try to reach >> >>out >> >> >>> >> personally to some other folks to see if we can attract them >>in. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> ~Michael >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> On 7/23/13 7:00 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> 1200 ET, btw - bad math. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> All the best, >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> John Blossom >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >>> >>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, John Blossom >> >><jblos...@gmail.com> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>>> OK, the consensus time/date for the hangout seems to be >> >> Wednesday, 31 >> >> >>> >>>> July, 1600 UTC (1000 EDT). I will create and event later >>today >> >>in >> >> >>> >>>> Hangouts. >> >> >>> >>>> If you're on the wave-dev list and have a Google login, >>please >> >> forward >> >> >>> >>>> me >> >> >>> >>>> your email ID/Google+ ID privately and I will add you to the >> >> circle of >> >> >>> >>>> invitees. I Have Joseph's ID already and I believe Ali and >> >>Michael >> >> >>> also, >> >> >>> >>>> but if you have a doubt, just send it along. If you don't >>make >> >>the >> >> >>> >>>> hangout >> >> >>> >>>> itself, I will be sure to share the link here for the common >> >> record. >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> All the best, >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >>> >>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 9:06 AM, John Blossom >> >><jblos...@gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> Ali, >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> New tool for me, but worth a try. Here's the Doodle link: >> >> >>> >>>>> http://doodle.com/5z7usamgh7kee4gf >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> I am open to other times, but these seem to be the most >> >>logical. >> >> >>> Please >> >> >>> >>>>> remember that UTC at this time of year is one hour less >>ahead >> >> from >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> >>>>> U.S. >> >> >>> >>>>> time zones due to Daylight Savings Time - e.g., ET is UTC+4 >> >>right >> >> >>> now. >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> All the best, >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >>> >>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ali Lown <a...@lown.me.uk> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>> I agree that another hangout sounds fun. >> >> >>> >>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>> John, how about setting up a Doodle for us to mark some >>dates >> >> on? >> >> >>> >>>>>> (http://doodle.com/) >> >> >>> >>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>> Ali >> >> >>> >>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>> On 17 July 2013 15:33, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> >> >>wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>>>> Great, Michael, find a date that works for you that >>seems to >> >> match >> >> >>> >>>>>> with >> >> >>> >>>>>>> others' interests and I will be glad to arrange for >>this. We >> >> can >> >> >>> >>>>>> have >> >> >>> >>>>>> the >> >> >>> >>>>>>> link available but not make public, if that helps to >> >>encourage >> >> >>> >>>>>> constructive >> >> >>> >>>>>>> participation. >> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>> All the best, >> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>> John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >>> >>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Michael MacFadden < >> >> >>> >>>>>>> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely interested. I will check my schedule >>for >> >>next >> >> >>> >>>>>> week. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> ~Michael >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> On 7/16/13 11:02 AM, "John Blossom" <jblos...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> That was my thought, also. ApacheWavers, please respond >> >>with >> >> some >> >> >>> >>>>>> avails >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> calibrated to UT+1 for this week and next week. Time to >> >>get >> >> this >> >> >>> >>>>>> party >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> started! My L,A. project is waiting for the funder to >>come >> >> >>> >>>>>> through, >> >> >>> >>>>>> but my >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> Nkommo project is gaining steam - hopeful that we'll >>have >> >> some >> >> >>> >>>>>> exciting >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> announcements fairly soon. Time to change the world >>with >> >> Wave!!! >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> All the best, >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> google+: https://google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Gentle < >> >> >>> jose...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> I've had a busy few weeks - gearing up to launch our >> >> product at >> >> >>> >>>>>> work. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> We should organize another hangout sometime. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -J >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM, John Blossom - Shore >> >> >>> >>>>>> Communications >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Inc. <jblos...@shore.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Soo...how is this initiative going? How may I help to >> >>move >> >> it >> >> >>> >>>>>> forward? >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> President >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shore Communications Inc. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> where content, technology and people meet. >>(Salesmark of >> >> Shore >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Communications Inc.) >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> web: shore.com >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> blog: contentblogger.com >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> email: jblos...@shore.com >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> phone: 203.293.8511 >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> fax: 203.663.8259 >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> twitter: jblossom <https://twitter.com/jblossom> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnblossom> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> facebook: John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> skype: jblossom >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, John Blossom >> >> >>> >>>>>> <jblos...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ingenious, Torben, certainly adds efficiency. John >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Torben Weis < >> >> >>> >>>>>> torben.w...@gmail.com> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/6/25 Joseph Gentle <jose...@gmail.com> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When peers connect, they send each other missing >> >>ops. >> >> >>> >>>>>> Figuring >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> out >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which ops are missing can be surprisingly >>tricky - >> >>but >> >> >>> >>>>>> we'll >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> figure >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that out later. New ops must be ingested in >>order, >> >>so >> >> >>> >>>>>> we >> >> >>> >>>>>> always >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ingest >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an operation after ingesting all of its parents. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just use a Merkle Tree that is at the same time a >> >>prefix >> >> >>> >>>>>> tree with >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> respect >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the hashes of the ops (explanation below). >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bandwidth usage is O(1) if both clients are in >> >>sync >> >> and >> >> >>> >>>>>> O(log >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> n) if >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they have one or few different ops and O(n) in the >> >>worst >> >> >>> >>>>>> case, >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> where n >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> in >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the number of ops. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Constructing the tree is simple. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the hash function output 20 bytes and let's >>encode >> >> this >> >> >>> >>>>>> in >> >> >>> >>>>>> hex. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> This >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> results in a hash-string of 40 hex-characters for >>each >> >> >>> >>>>>> operation. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Each node hashes over the hashes of its children. >> >> Leaf-nodes >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> correspond to >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> operations and thus use the hash value of their >> >> respective >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> operation. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree-invariant is that all siblings on level x >> >>share >> >> the >> >> >>> >>>>>> same >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> prefix >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> x hex-characters. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree is not sent over the network. Instead, >> >>clients >> >> >>> >>>>>> start >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> comparing >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hashes at the root. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two clients compare their root hash. If it is >>equal, >> >>the >> >> >>> >>>>>> entire >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> tree is >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> equal and therefore they are in sync. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, they download all direct children and >>repeat >> >>the >> >> >>> >>>>>> procedure >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> for >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> each >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sub-tree rooted by one of these children. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, if child number 3 has a different >>hash, >> >>but >> >> all >> >> >>> >>>>>> others >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> share >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same hash, then we have learned that there are >> >>one or >> >> >>> >>>>>> more >> >> >>> >>>>>> ops >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> with a >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hash of 3xxxx... that are different and need >>syncing. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Typically we can limit the depth of the tree to few >> >> levels. >> >> >>> >>>>>> 8 >> >> >>> >>>>>> levels >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> already yield a tree that could store 16^8 possible >> >>ops. >> >> So >> >> >>> >>>>>> in >> >> >>> >>>>>> the >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> worst >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> case two clients need to wait for 8 round-trips to >> >> >>> >>>>>> determine a >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> missing >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> op. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, each client sends a time stamp. So >>when >> >> >>> >>>>>> syncing we >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> report >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last time stamp received from this client and ask >>for >> >>all >> >> >>> >>>>>> ops >> >> >>> >>>>>> this >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> client >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> received later. If these are few, then simply get >>them >> >> (even >> >> >>> >>>>>> if we >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> know >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the ops already, because we got them from >> >>another >> >> >>> >>>>>> client). >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> If >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are too many ops, fall back to the merkle tree. >>With a >> >> good >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> approximation >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of RTT and bandwidth, it is easy to calculate which >> >> >>> >>>>>> algorithm >> >> >>> >>>>>> is the >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>> best >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to sync two clients. >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings >> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Torben >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Regards/Saludos, >> >> > Bruno Gonzalez >> >> > >> >> > http://www.stenyak.com | stenyak @ irc://irc.freenode.net >> >> >> >> >>
